Discussion Brigette, a card that makes players love or hate the most

Discussion in 'PTCG Competitive Play' started by Mr. Rhyperior, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Mr. Rhyperior The Drill Pokemon. An evolve form of Rhydon.
    Mr. Rhyperior

    Member

    Good day!

    Brigette was a supporter card that puts up to 3 Basic Pokemon straight to the bench or 1 basic EXs straight to the bench. Let's omit the EX thing. It was released in the BREAKThrough, the oldest card in the format.

    We're on a format that are evolution-heavy. Some players run Brigette as a one-of almost every decks. Some players wants to get rid of this card because, it searches basic GXs. I have to clarify, Brigette was released in BKT wherein GXs wasn't a thing.

    What is your side on this argument?

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  2. FlavorfulPineApl Favorite Deck: Vespiquen
    FlavorfulPineApl

    Member

    Seems like it could get an errata but....who knows. My personal opinion: Doesn't matter what they do to it. Its not like its "broken" or anything
     
  3. DragonFang101 Dragon-type Gym Leader
    DragonFang101

    Member

    It doesn't make a difference because ANY player can use it with ANY deck. Unlike FoGP, this doesn't belong to a specific type Pokemon or anything. It should not be banned because your opponent has the same advantage you do, so that's making it even.
     
    Professor_jplap likes this.
  4. DragonFang101 Dragon-type Gym Leader
    DragonFang101

    Member

    Brigette is such an awesome card, I'm giving it a score of 4.5 Geodudes! :p
     
    Mr. Rhyperior likes this.
  5. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    Brigette didn't see play until GXs came out. Brigette was a mediocre card that GXs made good and playable, not a good card that GXs made broken
     
  6. Rooie Aspiring Trainer
    Rooie

    Member

    Honestly, I don't understand why it didn't let you search for 3 EX's in the first place considering that Hoopa-EX existed already.
     
    GekkisaiDaiNi likes this.
  7. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

    Member

    Any deck could use Lysandre's Trump Card, but it was banned because of what it did to the game. Being deck-specific or general is not a conclusive test for whether or not a card is unbalancing or detrimental to the TCG.

    One is a Supporter, the other is the Ability on a Basic Pokémon-EX (apples to oranges); there is the assumption that Hoopa-EX is well balanced (two wrongs don't make a right).

    However, I see no reason to ban Brigette right now. If they intend to keep her around long term, the combination of an errata and a printing with the new text ensuring it can only snag one Pokémon-EX or one Pokémon-GX or up to three other Basic Pokémon would suffice. Unless they spring another new gimmick on us. XP If Brigette leaves Standard in a year, then just minding what they release as Basic Pokémon should suffice. What about Expanded? More pressing concerns, plus if it ever ends up being broken (or breaking something else), odds are it would just be banned.
     
    Mr. Rhyperior likes this.
  8. optimal_max Aspiring Trainer
    optimal_max

    Member

    I've never actually seen anyone use this card to pull a basic GX. 90% of the time it's to put some Raltz on the bench.

    Although it does make sense to use it that way.
     
  9. Mr. Rhyperior The Drill Pokemon. An evolve form of Rhydon.
    Mr. Rhyperior

    Member

    We don't give half-Geodudes, that would let itself Self-destruct.
     
  10. Lanstar The Funny Fairy Bug
    Lanstar

    Member

    Okay... My take on Brigette.

    It isn't just Basic Pokemon-GX people should be concerned about now: It is stage 1 or 2 GX's. At the moment, this is what Brigette is being used to develop: Normal basics that evolve into them. It's pretty much used like how Hoopa-EX was used in accelerating Mega Evolutions: Reach out 3 basics that, while aren't that powerful, can become 210+ HP attackers the next turn.


    In this regard, is Brigette any more broken than Hoopa-EX is for EX's? Not really. In fact, Hoopa has an even stronger effect: It isn't a supporter, so you can play Sycamore, or whatever support you want in the same turn.

    I think this card is perceived as broken is because of 2 reasons:

    1.) EX's have gotten really nerfed in standard.

    Many Mega Evolutions have lost Mega Turbo, which was crucial energy acceleration. Shaymin-EX is no more, so being able to to support them quicker is now lost. Many EX's have major trouble dealing with Field Blower and Choice Band, which take away their Links and Fury Belts, and makes them so much more prone to being KO'd. Then there is Garbodor GRI, which abuses their mostly item-centric approach to using them. This format has not been very kind to EX's right now compared to the previous ones...

    2.) Too many regular stage 1/2's have become unbearably unmatched in comparison to GX counterparts.

    The only really good normal stage 1/2's on the top of my head are Garb, Gallade, Alolan Ninetales, Vikavolt, Greninja, Octillery and perhaps Venusaur. Not a long list at all, and not even half of them are attacking oriented - they are mainly relegated to support positions. It is so hard right now to justify using many regular evolved attackers when we have the choice of evolving them into really strong GX's that are less prone to Knock-outs. It gets worse when tactics used to counter Evolved GX's also counter evolved Non-GX's - devolution, heavy-disruptions, strong pressure, etc., push non-GX's pretty hard, too.

    In my eyes, the solution isn't really to nerf Brigette - but instead, reprint certain cards for some EX's, and make more cards that are much more friendly to non-GX stage 1/2's. Yes, Brigette is powerful in making GX's good, but we need to justify using this supporter in the way it was intended to be played. And new cards to use it with that punishes GX's without collateral damage to non-GX's is my best solution.
     
    Mariano11887 likes this.
  11. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    I honestly wouldn't care if it got an errata for GXs or not.

    The main usage of Brigette is to put basics on the bench that lead to evolution GXs. There's nothing wrong with this by virtue of everyone playing Brigette in standard evolves up into GXs or anything else that makes an impact. Everyone is equally enabled, so I don't see a problem here. The only thing that should be discussed is Brigetting for 3 basic GXs.

    Pretty much any basic GX Pokemon with a significant single use ability (Lele, Kartana, Nihilego, Tapu Koko) must be played from hand, so Brigetting for them is pointless. Instead of placing an errata on Brigette, they've simply been placing abuse prevention on their basic GXs that would be absolutely busted if you could Brigette them.

    I also don't see why dropping down 3 basic GXs on your first turn is even "OP." If you drop down 3 Drampas, you still need at least 2 turns of energy to get them going at all anyway unless you're playing a match up that benefits from the first attack. If you don't have a single energy card in hand and you Brigette for 3 basic GXs, you really didn't get anything done.

    Pretty much every deck in the meta right now has an option for OHKOing basic GXs. All I see is dropping down 3 two-prize targets on your bench when you can only charge up energy one at a time anyway. We're starting to get more 1 energy attacks on basic GXs like Pheromosa and Buzzwole in which case the Brigette argument might become more important, but right now most basic GXs need at least 2 turns of energy attachment or reliance on Max Elixir in order to attack the same turn they are dropped anyway.

    We also can't forget Olivia, who just grabs you two GXs of any stage. Honestly speaking, if you're playing a basic GX-centric deck, you should probably be playing Olivia instead of Brigette anyway. We already have a card in the game that lets you grab 2 GXs to hand, which is arguably better than overcommitting your bench to 3 with Brigette. But the reason why Olivia doesn't see play (right now) is because there is currently no competitive deck that runs dominantly basic GXs and doesn't have non-GX Pokemon it wants to set up alongside them. Plus, there's no point in grabbing your final evolutions if you don't have a board to put them on to begin with.

    If Brigette doesn't get a reprint, I'm going home and crying, but it seems like everyone here is assuming that she will. If she gets reprinted and errata'd I wouldn't even care, because the only meta relevant decks in standard that Brigette for GX's are Drampa/Garbodor and Bulu/Vikavolt, and they usually only Brigette for a single GX. I'm going to be that guy and say that if Brigetting for basic GX's is "OP," why are the most popular meta decks not Brigetting for 3 basic GXs? Because there isn't a good enough strategy in our current card pool where having 3 basic GXs in one turn is a devastating play. They just sit there without energy unable to do anything.

    Keep in mind I know nothing about expanded, so if this is an issue in expanded feel free to fill me in.
     
    Mariano11887 likes this.
  12. Connor Ritter TCG Player
    Connor Ritter

    Member

    I believe they should issue a ruling on all tournament legal cards printed prior to Sun/Moon Base that refer to EXs are also to include GXs. The problem with Brigette right now is that a combination of 3 basics including GXs can be grabbed making for incredibly efficient set ups in certain decks that should be playing Pokemon Fan Club or Olivia and only grabbing 2 Pokemon. All of the basic GXs are as strong as if not stronger than basic EXs which are limited.

    I'd also like old Pokemon such as Carbink with Safeguard updated so they can be relevant again on par with Hoopa and Alolan Ninetales.
     
  13. DragonFang101 Dragon-type Gym Leader
    DragonFang101

    Member

    Yes and no. Lysandre's Trump card was banned because there definitely were some decks that were nil without it. Just look at the reasons why it was banned. I could make a list of specific decks that benefited (too) greatly from these conditions:

    • Eliminates one of your opponent’s victory conditions (running out of cards in your deck)
    • Allows repeated use of powerful Trainer cards
    • Allows drawing through your deck quickly with minimal repercussions
    • Extends the time of battles

    i.e. Bye bye Night March :/
     
  14. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

    Member

    @DragonFang101

    First, my apologies for the length. I am not trying to bury you under my responses. I'm just not sure how to trim this down because I don't know what it is one of us is seeing that the other does not.

    Originally you asserted that Birgette couldn't cause problems because any deck could benefit from her, unlike Forest of Giant Plants, which only benefited Pokémon capable of Evolving from Grass-Types. I responded by pointing out that was not a logical assumption; looking at one of the other banned cards - Lysandre's Trump Card - we see something that could be easily played in any deck.

    You are now clarifying your claim, wanting a card to be universally beneficial to all decks; I am glad you are doing this. You need to refine it further because your argument and conclusion still do not hold. I didn't split hairs by pointing out that any deck could technically run something like Forest of Giant Plants: it would just be a bad play in most of them, as the deck could not use the effect. Even though not all decks benefit equally from Lysandre's Trump Card, and that some were countered by it, doesn't stop it from being a universal card. Examine your own bullet points:

    Night March actually benefits from all of these; it is something you do not list - keeping certain cards in your discard pile - where Night March suffers. Even then, you had to use Lysandre's Trump Card right (or get lucky) to actually have it sufficiently counter Night March; with everything else not on the field returning to the deck alongside your Pokémon, a properly built and played Night March deck might not even be slowed down, let alone stopped, by Lysandre's Trump Card. If the Lost Zone mechanic had not been eliminated, Lysandre's Trump Card would have only changed mill, instead of ruining it (not that we had an awful lot of worthwhile mill decks at the time).

    I don't think I've played a TCG that had something that truly benefited every deck equally; even if it was intended, seems like someone will try and popularize something the designers didn't intend and so would-be universal support isn't truly universal. Slowking (Neo Genesis 14/111) came close; I'm not sure if any deck strategy in the Pokémon TCG does not benefit from preventing an opponent from using his or her Trainer cards. Part of why it was banned was that, even though it was a Psychic-Type Stage 1, almost every competitive deck was running it. "Almost" may only have been because some were slow to adopt it, as archetypes that had previously not included it began to shortly before it was banned.

    If you want to know what "broken" cards have in common, you have to look at what they actually do to the Pokémon TCG and people's enjoyment of it. "Raw power" isn't even always the issue; it is how the various game mechanics interact with each other within the card pool, and what that does to deck composition, match length, player enjoyment, etc. Working for just one deck/Stage/Type/etc. or working for all of them doesn't consistently prove something is "broken" or not, to the point it isn't even a good rule of thumb.
     
    DragonFang101 likes this.
  15. PokemonLover17 Aspiring Trainer
    PokemonLover17

    Member

    HAHA
     
  16. DragonFang101 Dragon-type Gym Leader
    DragonFang101

    Member

     
  17. PokemonLover17 Aspiring Trainer
    PokemonLover17

    Member

    thats not so funny.... how do you think that geodudes family feels about that?
     
  18. DragonFang101 Dragon-type Gym Leader
    DragonFang101

    Member

    They probably feel honored that their son was actually part of a Pokemon card rating.
     
  19. Androsidy Aspiring Trainer
    Androsidy

    Member

    Thanks for starting this discussion really relevant and interesting.
     
  20. Vitiel Mush. Up!
    Vitiel

    Member

    dude, don't do this
     
    JGB146 likes this.

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