Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

[NinjaPenguin]

Oh that's just a read from eevee. Okay, I guess let's lynch Jplap and then go with eevee to rid ourselves of an indie (because when potentially town Jplap can't confirm if eevee is good or bad, we can't leave him alive). I really don't like Mariano being left alive so long, but it's kinda inevitable at this point. At least my push got some good content out of it from everybody, and that's all I can ask for when Cel is so gosh darn stubborn (what a jock :UUUU).

Isn't that the same as a biased gut feeling then?

Biased is totally wrong. Tone reads are quite good reads when it comes to reading the right people, who know how to fake general content well, but not how to fake the pure qualities of being a townie.

Well, apparently it sounds more indie than scum to others. My initial thought of it was scummy too though. Although, no scum would out themselves like that, so I suppose Roz really did out himself as indie.

Well knowing eevee, he still has about a 20% chance of being town and a 30% chance of being scum haha.

Celever, if jplap flips scum, then what about the other scums? What clues would we have on them?

If he's scum, other scum are people who didn't end up on Jplap until it was 100% inevitable but didn't make that tie so obvious (Drac is the guy I'd be looking at first, definitely also TE because he distanced without casting a vote, Jade because he's inactive, I like scattered's posting but maybe him, maybe eevee). I also noted a chainsaw defense and the person he chainsaw defended would deserve examination too.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Nonono but this is the point. Your case on him is restrictively qualifiable -- as in, you're relying on qualities, which are perceived differently by different players. That shows just how hokey it is. Any case that is strictly qualifiable is not worth pursuing. So I don't have to agree to disagree, because my issue isn't with your conclusions, it's with what form they take.

Roleblockers < "how many mafiaz is there"? :thinking:

Qualifiable isn't some terrible thing like you say. I hate Camoclone scumtell list type of things, because those are so much easier to dodge.

Roleblocker if it can't block the kill is sooooo much worse than mechanics seer what are you even saying.

 

[Celever]

Hrm... Value of quality versus value of quanitity...
...wait a minute. Quantity?
Celever, if jplap flips scum, then what about the other scums? What clues would we have on them?

I mean, the obvious connection is if jplap is scum the chance of NP being scum is like, right up there. This is the worst he's played in a mafia game in recent memory basing his reads entirely off gut, even if it is D1. There has to be reason for that :/

If that is how you see it, then very well.To be honest, I don't know what question is worth saving jplap anymore at this point.
The best what I can do for now is look at what happens after jplap gets lynched.

Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, to a point I really wanna lynch roz now, because even though jplap is worth lynching, roz came in and kinda smashed it out the park. It's not too late to shift wagon, either.

Qualifiable isn't some terrible thing like you say. I hate Camoclone scumtell list type of things, because those are so much easier to dodge.

Roleblocker if it can't block the kill is sooooo much worse than mechanics seer what are you even saying.

I hate scumtell list type things too. What's not qualifiable in this game is stuff like jplap using his ability in the scummiest way possible

I mean not really tho. Mechanics seer is useless -- roleblocker is usually useless but sometimes is clutch.

##VOTE: roz_the_eevee

Come on now this is the better lynch. We can take out jplap tomorrow. But we don't know what the indie can do so it's riskier keeping him around.

 

[Scattered mind]

Thinking the same, but.. what if he wants that? Like, why would he claim indie for no reason being experienced as he say he is, including in being the indie for 87 times? Maybe we should ask scum to kindly do that instead

 

[Celever]

Thinking the same, but.. what if he wants that? Like, why would he claim indie for no reason being experienced as he say he is, including in being the indie for 87 times? Maybe we should ask scum to kindly do that instead

None of us know what our farewell abilities do though, right? Dx Maybe he's got a weird pseudo-fool where his farewell ability triggers his wincon or something but.... we can't compensate on our own scumhunting efforts because of that potential. The likelihood is he just misplayed haha

 

[NinjaPenguin]

I mean, the obvious connection is if jplap is scum the chance of NP being scum is like, right up there. This is the worst he's played in a mafia game in recent memory basing his reads entirely off gut, even if it is D1. There has to be reason for that :/

You've played mafia with me in recent memory...when? The last time I remember as town was Lorde's game and I did very little D1 except fight against a mislynch then too.
You have, however, played D1 against me as scum at around the same time, and if you remember Quaking's game, I was scum and saved Gekki D1 in a very different way then I'd be doing with Jplap. I'm not an idiot Cel; I know how to save a scumbuddy without turning into lovers.

I mean not really tho. Mechanics seer is useless -- roleblocker is usually useless but sometimes is clutch.

##VOTE: roz_the_eevee

Come on now this is the better lynch. We can take out jplap tomorrow. But we don't know what the indie can do so it's riskier keeping him around.

"It's risky to keep an indie when you don't know what they can do"
"NP this is a terrible idea why would we care if the indie is a threat or not that sounds useless"
I'm laughing over here. But sure, I'm OK lynching eevee and not Jplap today as long as we find a good question to agree on and force Jplap to ask.

 

[Nick Tornell]

So we are either allowing a probable scum or an indie who we don't know the win condition of to live. I don't like it at all.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

So we are either allowing a probable scum or an indie who we don't know the win condition of to live. I don't like it at all.

This post is disgusting. When D1 do you ever get offered such a good choice?

 

[Nick Tornell]

This post is disgusting. When D1 do you ever get offered such a good choice?

Alright it is a good (tough) choice.
##Vote: roz_the_eevee
Safest option ATM

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Alright it is a good (tough) choice.
##Vote: roz_the_eevee
Safest option ATM

Why is this the safest choice and why is the safest choice the best one?

 

[Celever]

You've played mafia with me in recent memory...when? The last time I remember as town was Lorde's game and I did very little D1 except fight against a mislynch then too.
You have, however, played D1 against me as scum at around the same time, and if you remember Quaking's game, I was scum and saved Gekki D1 in a very different way then I'd be doing with Jplap. I'm not an idiot Cel; I know how to save a scumbuddy without turning into lovers.

WIFOM. Protecting him like a lover means you can either successfully save him in which case good for you, or you can say "look at this precedent I don't protect my scumbuddies so vehemently", in which case you keep town cred. And I'm not really buying it.

"It's risky to keep an indie when you don't know what they can do"
"NP this is a terrible idea why would we care if the indie is a threat or not that sounds useless"
I'm laughing over here. But sure, I'm OK lynching eevee and not Jplap today as long as we find a good question to agree on and force Jplap to ask.

Exactly. Those two statements aren't as synonymous as you seem to think. Spending our resources ascertaining whether or not the unknown indie is a threat is a waste. But once we've found the indie, getting rid of them is certainly not a waste of resources.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

WIFOM. Protecting him like a lover means you can either successfully save him in which case good for you, or you can say "look at this precedent I don't protect my scumbuddies so vehemently", in which case you keep town cred. And I'm not really buying it.

Exactly. Those two statements aren't as synonymous as you seem to think. Spending our resources ascertaining whether or not the unknown indie is a threat is a waste. But once we've found the indie, getting rid of them is certainly not a waste of resources.

So, what question do we have Jplap ask when we flip Eevee? If Jplap doesn't flip indie (which this is eevee so there's a very real chance he isn't indie), he obviously asks if the indie is a threat or not. If he does flip indie, however, this question is very important and I wouldn't want to flip the likely indie without this question firmly set in stone.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

So, what question do we have Jplap ask when we flip Eevee? If Eevee doesn't flip indie (which this is eevee so there's a very real chance he isn't indie), he obviously asks if the indie is a threat or not. If he does flip indie, however, this question is very important and I wouldn't want to flip the likely indie without this question firmly set in stone.

I can words I swear.

 

[Celever]

So, what question do we have Jplap ask when we flip Eevee? If Jplap doesn't flip indie (which this is eevee so there's a very real chance he isn't indie), he obviously asks if the indie is a threat or not. If he does flip indie, however, this question is very important and I wouldn't want to flip the likely indie without this question firmly set in stone.

No, he doesn't obviously ask about whether the indie's harmful or not, because that's one of the least useful questions we could have him ask. If we really want to ascertain our numbers, the best thing we can ask is just how many mafia members there are, so we have a better idea of when MYLO is. Not that that's a particularly useful question, but it's the best we got.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

No, he doesn't obviously ask about whether the indie's harmful or not, because that's one of the least useful questions we could have him ask. If we really want to ascertain our numbers, the best thing we can ask is just how many mafia members there are, so we have a better idea of when MYLO is. Not that that's a particularly useful question, but it's the best we got.

That's literally the least useful question possible. 4 scum doesn't work at this size and PMJ learned that lesson from the last game he hosted and 2 scum is terribly sad for them. If it's not 3, I will be incredibly shocked.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

That's literally the least useful question possible. 4 scum doesn't work at this size and PMJ learned that lesson from the last game he hosted and 2 scum is terribly sad for them. If it's not 3, I will be incredibly shocked.

If you care about ascertaining the number of threats we have, let's ask if the indie is a threat or not if eevee isn't indie k thx.

 

[Celever]

That's literally the least useful question possible. 4 scum doesn't work at this size and PMJ learned that lesson from the last game he hosted and 2 scum is terribly sad for them. If it's not 3, I will be incredibly shocked.

If you care about ascertaining the number of threats we have, let's ask if the indie is a threat or not if eevee isn't indie k thx.

Oh it will almost certainly be 3, yes. Confirming that is still more useful than asking if the indie is a threat or not. Because we don't really care. What do you think will happen if we find that out? "Oh now that we know the indie is a threat we're gonna stop scumhunting and just look for the indie"? No; indies are always lynched or nightkilled as collateral unless they pull and eevee and out themselves in the thread. Knowing if they're a threat or not doesn't help us because it won't change how we play.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Oh it will almost certainly be 3, yes. Confirming that is still more useful than asking if the indie is a threat or not. Because we don't really care. What do you think will happen if we find that out? "Oh now that we know the indie is a threat we're gonna stop scumhunting and just look for the indie"? No; indies are always lynched or nightkilled as collateral unless they pull and eevee and out themselves in the thread. Knowing if they're a threat or not doesn't help us because it won't change how we play.

This is ridiculous. Your question doesn't change the way we play either. Confirming something "almost certain" gives so much less for us than something that's about a 50-50.

 

[Celever]

This is ridiculous. Your question doesn't change the way we play either. Confirming something "almost certain" gives so much less for us than something that's about a 50-50.

It changes it more, if only to confirm. Both questions are useless but finding out about the indie also helps scum, which is why it's interesting you're so adamant we should ask it.

 

[Mariano11887]

Eevee knows what he's doing and I completely refuse to believe otherwise. He never claims a role for a stupid reason like randomly outing.

roz did say that it's more benefical for him to lynch a town than a scum...

Yeah lol good try buddy I caught TE last game purely on tone and you know that.

No. You caught TE because you didn't find a reason why he was town (he wasn't contributing to town's wincon), not by his tone.

And double lol if you think Scum NP is bad enough to try to save a scumbuddy like this.

WIFOM

I read tone differently than you and you'll have to agree to disagree.

Great, the perfect reason to vote without providing a reason. So I can say jplap is scum because of how I read his tone, would you be satisfied with it?

In all honesty we probably should have voted out the indie today and then moved on to Jplap tomorrow once he gave us another read. But I'm pretty sure the day is supposed to end pretty soon so meh.

This is what I thought as soon as I read roz was indie. I strongly propose lynching him Day 2 if he isn't lynched today.

Okay, I guess let's lynch Jplap and then go with eevee to rid ourselves of an indie (because when potentially town Jplap can't confirm if eevee is good or bad, we can't leave him alive).

It seems we start agreeing here (in the case roz isn't lynched today).

I mean, the obvious connection is if jplap is scum the chance of NP being scum is like, right up there. This is the worst he's played in a mafia game in recent memory basing his reads entirely off gut, even if it is D1. There has to be reason for that :/

I'll be really shocked if jplap and NP are both scum. I mean, NP is a really good player and I don't see him exposing himself that way to save a scumbuddy. Although, it could be WIFOM too... Not worth thinking right now.

I adhere to the idea of lynching eevee over jplap because we have a confirmation from himself that he's indie, and we're not 100% sure jplap is scum (but very probable IMO). We have 28 hours left in the Day, I think it's enough time to move votes to roz.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: roz_the_eevee