News Legendary Pokemon Distributions, TCG Products Announced for 2018: Explains Some Things!

[theprp30]

SHINY ZYGARDE really cool, everything else ehh. Hopefully the tcg part of this will be unique and cool.

 

[WrightJustice]

They want me to leave my house for all these cover legendaries?
Only Shiny Zygarde looks half worth it but even then I'm so fed up of needing to go find a GAME or worse to do pokemon events.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

It's not a rubber band because N affects you too. The blue shell doesn't. Also You can often gen N'd into a playable hand after a starting brick BY YOUR OPPONENT so this card definitely has its draw backs.

The problem is just the rubber banding. It's also the fact that you can't plan anything. N punished the very concept of making good plays and managing resources. N makes it hard to play specific decks that require combo pieces. Talonflame is not useful because you can N it away. Cards like Mallow aren't as strong because of it. N ruins a lot of things.

I will argue that there is a place for the card simple because other effects are so strong but they need to check the design of cards in general. We now have two other Supporters that can shuffle hands back into the deck and draw. They are less powerful than N but why not just use those over N. If the goal is to just refresh hands, we have options.

If N gets reprinted, it'll be proof to me that they don't care about the game.

 

[Kyrushi]

I scroll down to read thoughts about the legendary campaign and everyone's talking about N. What's going on?

 

[RedSuinit]

The problem is just the rubber banding. It's also the fact that you can't plan anything. N punished the very concept of making good plays and managing resources. N makes it hard to play specific decks that require combo pieces. Talonflame is not useful because you can N it away. Cards like Mallow aren't as strong because of it. N ruins a lot of things.

I will argue that there is a place for the card simple because other effects are so strong but they need to check the design of cards in general. We now have two other Supporters that can shuffle hands back into the deck and draw. They are less powerful than N but why not just use those over N. If the goal is to just refresh hands, we have options.

If N gets reprinted, it'll be proof to me that they don't care about the game.

That's absolute BS. N helps keep overly aggressive decks from ruining the meta by giving other strategies a viable option to slow them down. Without something like N we would literally just have net decks that would never lose. N does the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim. It rewards good play and creates a balance between the amazing strength of cards like talon flame and vulpix and other decks in the meta. If there was no N, Ilima or Whick then vulpix and talon flame would be broken. N just happens to be the most useful of them all because it also stops hyper aggressive decks from insta-winning every tournament.

N raises the skill ceiling because you have to play around it, Pokemon without N or an effective disruption card would blow. It truly would be "Who can build the fastest deck". We got a good taste of that with Shaymin. The format before this is what you are asking for, and no offense, that format sucked. You could effectively negate N by just playing most of your deck in a single turn. Hence why incredibly fast, big basic decks ruled the format. There was no stage 2 decks, at all.

EDIT: I honestly believe that you are wrong about the card.

 

[HouchinsDJ]

That card literally ruins the game. It makes no sense why they have kept it in this long. I have list more games to N than any other card. It's the worst "rubber band" Nintendo creates since the Blue Shell.

I personally have no issues with N. It may act as a rubber band, but everyone knows that your opponent plays N, so if you haven't built your deck to play around it (including an Octillery/Zoroark GX or a lot of outs to a Lele or other supporter) or if you just go overly aggressive and just take a bunch of prizes without effectively thinning your deck, then that's your fault. In my opinion it acts as a ceiling raiser for play skill.

I disagree. Top decking an N after your opponent has outplayed you for 5-6 turns, and is ahead on prizes 5-2 can be catastrophic, when your carefully curated hand of energy, supporters, etc, becomes one card. It's far too powerful. I'd be fine with it if there was a hard counter, like a Pokémon with an ability "ignore any effects targeting your hand" or something similar, but having to put in Zoro/Oct to maintain your lead is clunky game design.

I gotta agree with @RedSuinit on this one. N has been in the format for what, 6-7 years? If you don't know how to play around it by now then I don't know what to tell you. Without N, your opponent can abuse search cards with no response. Know that your opponent has the card in hand they need to win the game next turn? Welp, too bad, you can't stop it. N is the only viable hand disruption card we have at the moment. Illima is awful and Wicke is situational. N can help turn games around which makes it interesting, otherwise players may as well scoop as soon as their opponent has the lead.

With that said, if N rotates and stays out of rotation then I'd be fine with some variation of the card. Something like Judge, where both players shuffle and draw the same amount of cards. That way you still have an option to disrupt your opponent's hand that's a little more viable than Illima or Wicke.

 

[RedSuinit]

I gotta agree with @RedSuinit on this one. N has been in the format for what, 6-7 years? If you don't know how to play around it by now then I don't know what to tell you. Without N, your opponent can abuse search cards with no response. Know that your opponent has the card in hand they need to win the game next turn? Welp, too bad, you can't stop it. N is the only viable hand disruption card we have at the moment. Illima is awful and Wicke is situational. N can help turn games around which makes it interesting, otherwise players may as well scoop as soon as their opponent has the lead.

With that said, if N rotates and stays out of rotation then I'd be fine with some variation of the card. Something like Judge, where both players shuffle and draw the same amount of cards. That way you still have an option to disrupt your opponent's hand that's a little more viable than Illima or Wicke.

A judge reprint would be fine by me if N rotates out. It's at least SOMETHING. It doesn't do enough to punish overly aggressive decks IMO, but it would at least be something. Ilima is straight bad and Wicke isn't much better.

 

[Swampert Full Art]

It's all makes sense now! In Febuary, Ultra Prism will have DP Pokémon, April will have Raiku - Entei box, and in May, Forbidden Light will have XY Pokémon!

 

[Rindon]

I am hoping for a playable Kyogre-gx in Standard again. Even better if Tidal Storm attack is tweaked to damage all gx Pokemon. Maybe even Tidal Storm will wipe opponents bench clear of all GX Pokemon

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

That's absolute BS. N helps keep overly aggressive decks from ruining the meta by giving other strategies a viable option to slow them down.

N does nothing but favor aggressive decks. Slower decks or decks that require some thought get punished by N because you can't play your resource game. The only viable meta strategy is balls to the wall aggro.

Without something like N we would literally just have net decks that would never lose.

I don't know how long you've played the game but this was never the case. N has never been a way to make decks lose. I'm not sure what you're getting at about this.

N does the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim. It rewards good play and creates a balance between the amazing strength of cards like talon flame and vulpix and other decks in the meta. If there was no N, Ilima or Whick then vulpix and talon flame would be broken. N just happens to be the most useful of them all because it also stops hyper aggressive decks from insta-winning every tournament.

The objections to N being in the game is it prevents play and can snowball it into being luck based. No one card should ever eject a player from the game and have no way to counter it. Talonflame isn't broken and neither is Vulpix. Setup attacks have always been in the game and when Pidgeot FRLE was in the game as a staple in nearly every deck, it never broke the game. In fact, it make other decks viable since they can find what they need to setup. Again, N only helps aggro decks because they have more 'burnable' cards in their deck than say, something with four Max Potion. The game doesn't need N because it punishes the win condition - even more so considering how dependent the game is on opening hands. If the goal is to "prevent Talonflame and Vulpix" from being broken, then why not just let Ilima or boob lady take the place of N? Ilima offers a risk/reward option where you can also kill your hand and Wicke just forces both players refresh their hands.

Want to Big Wheel GX or Geotech GX? Too bad for you because I have a N. Used Talonfalme to help for frog deck set up? Okay, well now you have to do it again. Why use a supportive GX attack when you can just nuke something and take two Prize cards? This is my point. You can't do anything defensive or supportive because of N. Why use a GX attack that will get N away? N only favors aggro decks. The card may have been intended as a way to help a player that is behind catch up, but it has never been that card.

N raises the skill ceiling because you have to play around it, Pokemon without N or an effective disruption card would blow.

This isn't true at all. There is no skill to playing N. Most people who play it do so because it's their only draw support in their hand. There isn't a way to play around N. There isn't a option where I can play a Trap card to stop it. When N comes down, you do what it says. You can do things to micromanage your hand but why should my tempo deck be forced to play a Max Potion or two just to avoid being N into them? Why should I have to burn useful cards I want later on in the game just to avoid seeing them again? Sure this isn't a problem if you play an aggro deck but I'm being punished just for my play style.

The game needs disruption but not N. Ilima and Wicke are good enough disruption. You want to punish a Big Wheel GX or Geotech GX, then you can Ilima and risk putting yourself to three or you can be safe and play Wicke. The opponent keeps their hand of ten cards or whatever they had plus five cards. You can even use the new Marshadow card that Judges both players to four at the cost of Bench space. You have other options of disruption that doesn't involve N.

It truly would be "Who can build the fastest deck". We got a good taste of that with Shaymin. The format before this is what you are asking for, and no offense, that format sucked.

That is what the game is now. Why do you think Stage one decks have always been good? Zoroark-GX/Lycanroc-GX isn't anything new. These kind of decks have always dominated the game because they are fast and powerful. That deck is good because they can use Abilities plus N to wreck their opponent's setup. Shaymin-EX should have never been made. I'm just glad they haven't remade Super Energy Removal. I don't want the format before. It's why I wanted to see Evolutions-On so we can see better designed cards and because we didn't, we got things like Garbodor and Gardevoir-GX to compensate for things that shouldn't still be in the game.

You could effectively negate N by just playing most of your deck in a single turn. Hence why incredibly fast, big basic decks ruled the format. There was no stage 2 decks, at all.

So I have to play aggro then?

EDIT: I honestly believe that you are wrong about the card.

Maybe but since I have put a lot of time and study into game theory and game design, I know having mechanics tied to a win condition that can punish the player in almost always a bad idea if not properly balanced. If N were one per deck, then there wouldn't be any problem but TPC/i refuses to use proper card game mechanics proven to work to manage their card design.

 

[RedSuinit]

N does nothing but favor aggressive decks. Slower decks or decks that require some thought get punished by N because you can't play your resource game. The only viable meta strategy is balls to the wall aggro.

ROFL, no. Just no. Unlike with Shaymin based formats with tons of acceleration cards, you can't get multiple big basics setup in a single or two turns anymore. N did not hurt aggressive decks in the previous format nearly as much as they do now.

Your second point is also complete BS. Any card that can cause your opponent to shuffle there hand does the same thing as N in that instance. Slower decks get an ADVANTAGE with N. The later you start taking prizes, the better N gets for you. That's just a fact.

I don't know how long you've played the game but this was never the case. N has never been a way to make decks lose. I'm not sure what you're getting at about this.

It absolutely can make decks lose. If you could run a deck that hit hard with a big basic, but could only setup one before you're down to 2-3 prizes, N becomes far more effective. Hitting that one attacker and hitting the opponent with an N in the same turn can swing games, and make certain decks lose. They could draw into a Sycamore and draw more cards (we see it all the time) but that becomes their supporter for the turn. Do you even understand why Zoroark GX is such a strong card? If you did you would understand how your comment makes NO SENSE at all.

The objections to N being in the game is it prevents play and can snowball it into being luck based. No one card should ever eject a player from the game and have no way to counter it. Talonflame isn't broken and neither is Vulpix. Setup attacks have always been in the game and when Pidgeot FRLE was in the game as a staple in nearly every deck, it never broke the game. In fact, it make other decks viable since they can find what they need to setup. Again, N only helps aggro decks because they have more 'burnable' cards in their deck than say, something with four Max Potion. The game doesn't need N because it punishes the win condition - even more so considering how dependent the game is on opening hands. If the goal is to "prevent Talonflame and Vulpix" from being broken, then why not just let Ilima or boob lady take the place of N? Ilima offers a risk/reward option where you can also kill your hand and Wicke just forces both players refresh their hands.

Want to Big Wheel GX or Geotech GX? Too bad for you because I have a N. Used Talonfalme to help for frog deck set up? Okay, well now you have to do it again. Why use a supportive GX attack when you can just nuke something and take two Prize cards? This is my point. You can't do anything defensive or supportive because of N. Why use a GX attack that will get N away? N only favors aggro decks. The card may have been intended as a way to help a player that is behind catch up, but it has never been that card.

Do you have ANY idea how OP those attacks would be WITHOUT a card like N? You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. None at all. We would have to introduce a card that you'd be able to play as a counter to those attacks. Having a 10 card hand can straight up win a game. Why in Gods name would we ever want that kind of a format?

N does the exact same thing as Ilima and Wicke UNLESS you are the slower deck. You get to draw more cards than the aggressive deck. Again, you're wrong. Fundamentally, the argument that N only helps aggro decks is just wrong. The faster you take prizes the more N hurts. That's just a fact.

Again, it just seems like you want to take prizes ASAP with no regard to next turn. No worrying about thinning your deck effectively or building your deck to minimize the effect of a card like N, creating more space for more aggressive cards.

This isn't true at all. There is no skill to playing N. Most people who play it do so because it's their only draw support in their hand. There isn't a way to play around N. There isn't a option where I can play a Trap card to stop it. When N comes down, you do what it says. You can do things to micromanage your hand but why should my tempo deck be forced to play a Max Potion or two just to avoid being N into them? Why should I have to burn useful cards I want later on in the game just to avoid seeing them again? Sure this isn't a problem if you play an aggro deck but I'm being punished just for my play style.

The game needs disruption but not N. Ilima and Wicke are good enough disruption. You want to punish a Big Wheel GX or Geotech GX, then you can Ilima and risk putting yourself to three or you can be safe and play Wicke. The opponent keeps their hand of ten cards or whatever they had plus five cards. You can even use the new Marshadow card that Judges both players to four at the cost of Bench space. You have other options of disruption that doesn't involve N.

Wicke and Ilima only favor aggro decks. There is no punishment for being overly aggressive. You just want to take prizes as fast as possible without having to consider what will happen next turn.

That is what the game is now. Why do you think Stage one decks have always been good? Zoroark-GX/Lycanroc-GX isn't anything new. These kind of decks have always dominated the game because they are fast and powerful. That deck is good because they can use Abilities plus N to wreck their opponent's setup. Shaymin-EX should have never been made. I'm just glad they haven't remade Super Energy Removal. I don't want the format before. It's why I wanted to see Evolutions-On so we can see better designed cards and because we didn't, we got things like Garbodor and Gardevoir-GX to compensate for things that shouldn't still be in the game.

Are you kidding me? The format is so SLOW now. Especially in comparison to last season. I can't even.... I literally can't.

Garbodor only punishes item cards, most of which are good for AGGRESSIVE DECKS.... Most of the item cards that were heavily played were tilted towards setting up multiple big basics turn one so that an N after you start taking knock outs wouldn't matter.

So I have to play aggro then?

Not in the current format, because setting up multiple big basics in a single turn is no longer feasible.

Maybe but since I have put a lot of time and study into game theory and game design, I know having mechanics tied to a win condition that can punish the player in almost always a bad idea if not properly balanced. If N were one per deck, then there wouldn't be any problem but TPC/i refuses to use proper card game mechanics proven to work to manage their card design.

I call BS on this statement. Half of your argument is so flawed I can't take this statement seriously.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

@RedSuinit not going to reply to any of that because you entirely missed the point.

 

[RedSuinit]

@RedSuinit not going to reply to any of that because you entirely missed the point.

Because I don't agree with your assessment of the card. You clearly hate the card and can't look at it objectively.

The ONLY way any of your arguments make sense is if you get rid of all disruption cards entirely. Ilima is the same as an N in slow decks if you roll heads. If you roll tails it's even WORSE for slow decks. Judge is the same way. Great for aggro decks, terrible for slow ones. Wicke is again the same way, favors fast and hurts slow, setup type decks. Especially if those decks are playing setup cards like talon flame or vulpix. It's just not quite as painful as N or Ilima, IF you have more than 6 cards in hand that is.

 

[Kyrushi]

How does Wicke favor aggro decks exactly? You have to draw the same number of cards you originally had in your hand. If you're playing aggressive, you're more than likely going to have a small hand. Similarly, Illima doesn't really favor anything in particular because you need coin luck. Octillery and Oranguru are the only things making Illima a safe bet at the moment but even then no one uses it because we still have N in standard.

I also noticed no one is mentioning Red Card or even the new target Red Card. You can disrupt your opponent's draws without using your support for the turn. I've used Target in a few decks and it turns out to be handy. Even if I don't end up shuffling their hand, it's good to know what options they have so I can play around it.

I've been collecting for years but i've only been playing for a little under a year so I apologize if i'm just being ignorant.

 

[RedSuinit]

How does Wicke favor aggro decks exactly? You have to draw the same number of cards you originally had in your hand. If you're playing aggressive, you're more than likely going to have a small hand. Similarly, Illima doesn't really favor anything in particular because you need coin luck. Octillery and Oranguru are the only things making Illima a safe bet at the moment but even then no one uses it because we still have N in standard.

I also noticed no one is mentioning Red Card or even the new target Red Card. You can disrupt your opponent's draws without using your support for the turn. I've used Target in a few decks and it turns out to be handy. Even if I don't end up shuffling their hand, it's good to know what options they have so I can play around it.

I've been collecting for years but i've only been playing for a little under a year so I apologize if i'm just being ignorant.

If an aggressive deck has already taken 4 prizes, and they have a 6-7 card hand (which is very, very feasible) Wicke does little to nothing to punish them. Slower decks RELY on N to disrupt an aggressive deck, and reduce their odds of having an out for game. Aggro decks in the current format are not as strong as they were last season. Last season, it wasn't strange to see 2 big basic Pokemon be fully powered up by the end of turn 1 or 2. Now you see one fully powered by turn 3. There just aren't decks that can nullify the effect of N by having an incredibly advantageous board state by the end of your first turn. On top of that, we also had VS Seeker, which added even MORE outs from an N to a low hand size, even further reducing the effectiveness of N on aggressive decks. There was almost no way to punish fast, aggressive, big basic decks, hence why that was the only type of deck that was played, minus a few stage 1, single prize decks (i.e. Vespequin). I'm thrilled that N is still in the Format and VS Seeker is out. Slow decks actually stand a chance in the format because of that.

 

[The Last Shaymin]

I guess its time to build quad sylveon then?

 

[Kyrushi]

If an aggressive deck has already taken 4 prizes, and they have a 6-7 card hand (which is very, very feasible) Wicke does little to nothing to punish them. Slower decks RELY on N to disrupt an aggressive deck, and reduce their odds of having an out for game. Aggro decks in the current format are not as strong as they were last season. Last season, it wasn't strange to see 2 big basic Pokemon be fully powered up by the end of turn 1 or 2. Now you see one fully powered by turn 3. There just aren't decks that can nullify the effect of N by having an incredibly advantageous board state by the end of your first turn. On top of that, we also had VS Seeker, which added even MORE outs from an N to a low hand size, even further reducing the effectiveness of N on aggressive decks. There was almost no way to punish fast, aggressive, big basic decks, hence why that was the only type of deck that was played, minus a few stage 1, single prize decks (i.e. Vespequin). I'm thrilled that N is still in the Format and VS Seeker is out. Slow decks actually stand a chance in the format because of that.

Thanks for explaining in detail. That actually does make a lot of sense. I'm not a fan of N either, but I can understand your points.

 

[Green778]

Why do they keep forgetting Suicune exists...

 

[BraviaryBoi]

So..... no confirmed gen 4 remake?
“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”
-Luke Skywalker

 

[fleshrum]

Except it really isn't. To isolate players EVEN MORE than there is already in the Pokemon TCG would be a HUGE mistake. If you look at any other TCG there are cards that you can play during your opponents turn, and have more interaction between players. If you get rid of N, then what you actually do in the game matters very little. It becomes about if you draw your cards. Deck building and gameplay become far less interesting, and dominant decks (BDIFs, OP decks, etc) become far more prevalent. When you can't do ANYTHING to disrupt your opponents strategy, the game just becomes stale and boring. Sounds like you just hate being punished for being overly aggressive.

I strongly agree, but reactive abilities don't have to target the hand. We've never seen for example a supporter that adds damage counters, nor an ability that can only be activated on your opponents turn. IMO the game is already *relatively* stale and boring in terms of the design space it could explore.