Event Dallas Regionals Expanded Metagame Predictions

InfinityFyre

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hello everyone!

What do you think will be the best-positioned threats in Dallas and what Deck do you plan on bringing/believe the optimal play is? I personally love the multitude of various lock decks available in expanded and am currently eyeing Sableye/Garbodor and Seismitoad/Garbodor. As far as the most popular decks I would expect to see a lot of Garb box (ugh), a lot of turbo dark, and maybe a resurgence of Trevenant. Night march probably won't see much play due to the high skill ceiling forced by the abundance of Karen. Let me know what you guys think, as there are a vast variety of decks with the potential to make an impact.

Cheers!
 

Lord Goomy

Got Goomies?
Member
I don't know about anyone else, but those expanded meta predictions look about right.
I'm going to said regionals, and I needed help on said expanded meta, and said explanation about said expanded meta pleases said me.
See you there!
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
I'm going to Dallas, here's my take on it.

Between the end of San Jose and Dallas, no new cards will be released. So whatever is good in San Jose, will be good in Dallas. Albeit, with a bit more refinement.

ZOROARK VARIANTS - I'm seeing 4 big ones in San Jose: Golisopod, Lycanroc, Night March, and straight Zoroark. From what I've been reading, Golisopod is the weakest, Straight is the strongest and most consistent, but Lycanroc has a better matchup spread. I honestly think that the Golisopod variant will not be seen as much in Dallas as San Jose. I'm not sure what to think of Night March, Lycanroc or Straight Zoroark as I can see their popularity go either way. A LOT of it comes down to which top players pilot which version. That said, I DOUBT any fighting deck is going to come out of the woodwork to take it on in Dallas. You have Carbink Break decks (which haven't gained a whole lot since their top 32 appearance in Fort Wayne). It's not an easy deck to pilot and absolutely dies to Garb-Necrozma Toolbox. That said, Zoroark variants are here to stay. I feel like I should update this part after San Jose.

GARB-NECROZMA TOOLBOX - Zoroark variants give the deck a hard time. I mean, so does Trevenant, but that's a whole nother can of worms. Yes, the deck DID win Daytona regionals, but I think that's honestly the best the deck can get. It doesn't gain much of anything, or at all, from Shining Legends or Crimson Invasion. There's not really much you can sub out for anything else. I think that the versions we see at San Jose are going to be the same for Dallas. The deck might use some different Pokemon techs, but that's all I'm seeing. It's a bit like the Sky Field Turbo Darkrai variants in terms of how the deck staunchly wants to stay the way it is for the best results. Zoroark will knock it down a few pegs, but it has decent matchups against most everything else.

GARDEVOIR - Gardevoir will continue to be a top contender. The problem it has is that it literally cannot tech for everything. So whatever it doesn't tech for has a good to favorable matchup against it. That said, there is no silver bullet to Gardevoir. I don't think we are going to see any radical change with any Gardevoir builds.

NIGHT MARCH - Everyone is teching for it these days. We now have 2 versions. Those that use Zoroark GX and versions that don't. The big difference is that the Zoroark versions completely get around their silver bullet counters: Karen and Oricorio. I think because of this, Karen is going to be used A LOT less and Oricirio will be seen more as the more splashable tech. I think the most successful versions of Night March will be ones that include Zoroark GX. Specifically, a 2-2 line of Zoroark GX, as prizing one of the components in a version with 1-1 leaves you open to Karen and Oricorio plays.

DARKRAI EX/DARKRAI GX - I think that Darkrai EX/Turbo Darkrai is outdated. It's one of the most consistent deck of the format and it's not as good as it used to be. The Darkrai GX version has a slightly better match spread. At least, it does more favorably in matchups its already good in.

SABLEYE-GARBODOR - This is one of the best decks in the format. And unfortunately for it, people know it. It's a deck where if more people are expecting it, the worse it does. Zoroark CAN give it a hard time, but it all depends on how the Zoroark deck is constructed with support trainers and whatnot. I think San Jose is going to have a bunch of Ghetsis in decks in anticipation of it, but may not be necessary. Thing is, the deck has a high skill floor and ceiling. So unless they are going to make it their pet deck and work with it from the end of San Jose to Dallas NON STOP, or they have a good knowledge of how it works and how to read into other decks for threats and predictions: don't run it. I feel a lot of people who pick up the deck are going to do terribly with it and I think that's going to happen in San Jose. Not so much for Dallas. It'll be a contender in Dallas. But only in good hands.

TREVENANT - Call me crazy, but despite the surge of Zoroark decks, I see Trev making a comeback like it did in Daytona. The massive ammount of Zoroarks in the field in San Jose will have people writing it off. That's all I'm going on is that I think San Jose is going to make everyone drop their guard. Thats what Trevenant decks count on.

GOLISOPOD VARIANTS - Still a contender, but I don't think they are going to reach top 8. Bunch of variants: Toad, Garb, Zoroark are the big ones. IT's a good deck, but even as I'm typing this, I don't see many Golisopod in top 32 in Dallas. I honestly think that something innovative has to happen for Golisopod to see good results this time around. Golisopod-Fighting. I don't know.

TOAD-SERVIPER - I was under the impression that this was a 'surprise' deck and everyone would be able to tech for it and shut it out. Not so much. It is unfavorable against Gardevoir (provided they run Comfey), Trev, and Zoroark variants. Sort of a weird set of things to be unfavorable against. This is a deck where, unless you know how to tackle it, it'll destroy you. I don't think this'll top 32.

VOLCANION/TURBO TURTLES - Easy to run decks that are good at what they do, however with the lack of Golisopod--or at least the massive saturation of it that we saw in Fort Wayne, the deck doesn't have the ability to sweep D1 as easily. That and the fact that they have terrible matchups against T1 anything. They can go toe to toe against tier-2 and rogue stuff very nicely. But as soon as they start racking wins from there and go up in tables, they're going to get knocked back down to lower tables again.
 

Laurier_Ex

Ninja master
Member
Ninja Box for the win. Surprise everyone with the most beautiful and unique of all decks. No one plays it and no one will tech against it.

It wrecks Trevenant, Greninja, Nightmarch, Seismitoad and most Zoroark variants especially Lycanroc if they do not have a special tech. It has close to a 50% matchup against Turbo Darkrai, Gardevoir, Garbodor, Necrozma, Drampa, Golisopod and Volcanion decks. The very hard matchups are Sableye, Xerneas Break and Rayquaza. Other than that it can pull a win against all other meta decks.

I sound like the guy telling the earth is round while everyone always believed it was flat. I am an heretic, burn me on a bonfire.
 

gumball51321

*thumbs up*
Member
Ninja Box for the win. Surprise everyone with the most beautiful and unique of all decks. No one plays it and no one will tech against it.

It wrecks Trevenant, Greninja, Nightmarch, Seismitoad and most Zoroark variants especially Lycanroc if they do not have a special tech. It has close to a 50% matchup against Turbo Darkrai, Gardevoir, Garbodor, Necrozma, Drampa, Golisopod and Volcanion decks. The very hard matchups are Sableye, Xerneas Break and Rayquaza. Other than that it can pull a win against all other meta decks.

I sound like the guy telling the earth is round while everyone always believed it was flat. I am an heretic, burn me on a bonfire.
Any good player playing a good deck can beat Ninjabox. No one plays it because it can't consistently win games. And no one techs against it because it can't consistently win games. It most definitely does lose to Trees, Frogs as a whole is a terrible deck if the pilot isn't really skilled with it. Night March, eh, I can see that. Seismitoad, like Frogs, is terrible if the pilot isn't really good with the deck. Zoroark isn't a meta deck yet( despite everyone acting like it is, it has yet to have any relevant results). Garb/ Necrozma would absolutely destroy you. Once Necrozma Black Rays you, everything on your field is now in KO range. Drampa isn't a deck by itself, but either way, Righteous Edge discards all of your precious special Energy. Golisopod is debatable, but I can see that happening. And Turbo Turtles? Yeah, good luck, it's the fastest deck in the format.

Dallas regionals is going to be a LOT of SableGarb. For whatever reason, people suddenly praise it like it's BDIF, despite only a small handful T32 or better the entire season. I love the deck, but it has a lot of problems. Item lock, N, an unfavorable Turbo Turtles matchup. Garb is still arguably BDIF, but by the time Dallas comes around, I think it will just be common instinct how to beat it. Unless something else relevant to the fact comes of power, I think Turbo Turtles will win the event, but that's based on nothing but educated guessing. It has great matchups, it's super fast, and there's currently nothing stopping the deck from doing well.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
Dallas regionals is going to be a LOT of SableGarb. For whatever reason, people suddenly praise it like it's BDIF, despite only a small handful T32 or better the entire season.

I believe it's always been known to have great results in the meta. It's just understood that the only people that run it successfully are players with chops and psychopaths. IT has a huge skill floor and ceiling and that has been enough of a deterrent, and rightfully so, to make it an underrepresented deck.

I do think that a good number of people are going to pick up the deck this weekend and expect to do well with it. Only to find themselves having to improvise with strategies they aren't familiar with and go 0-3-drop.

I think people are going to see this happen and go 'man, Sableye-Garb doesn't work' and will potentially go back under the radar again because it, of course, was underrepresented and underperformed with maybe 1...2 people tops, going Top 32 with it.

I think the reason we aren't seeing it go beyond top 32 is because more experienced players know how to tackle it. Does better in day 1. Of all the meta decks, it has probably the best matchup spread. It's worst deck (Trevenant) it literally has a silver bullet for. Other than that, it's less than ideal matchups seem to be even.

At least, that's what I've interpreted up to this point.

I love the deck, but it has a lot of problems. Item lock, N, an unfavorable Turbo Turtles matchup. Garb is still arguably BDIF, but by the time Dallas comes around, I think it will just be common instinct how to beat it.
I think everyone is going to tech in Ghetsis in hopes that it's a silver bullet against Sableye-Garb...it CAN be, but it's largely on when you use it and how the S-G deck is built. There's ways to beat N and Ghetsis.

Item Lock. Won't argue with you there. Unless you can get Latias EX out against Trevenant, you're dead. Seismitoad sucks too. You CAN put Parallel City against it and buffer down it's Quaking Punch damage and cause a sort of stalemate until they bump the stadium.

Then again, I don't know what it's matchups against the Zoroark variants are like. Apparently they are favorable, but this was the opinion earlier in the month; WAY pre-EU internats. I think the deck has taken on a more refined form that looks ugly for the Sableye-Garb matchup...unless I'm missing something (which I hope I am). I'm more worried about those than Item Lock, to be honest.


Unless something else relevant to the fact comes of power, I think Turbo Turtles will win the event, but that's based on nothing but educated guessing. It has great matchups, it's super fast, and there's currently nothing stopping the deck from doing well.

I agree that Turbo Turtles has great matchups....unless we are talking about the Tier 1 decks. AND Lycanroc-Zoroark. It can stomp out virtually everything else.
 
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gumball51321

*thumbs up*
Member
I agree that Turbo Turtles has great matchups....unless we are talking about the Tier 1 decks. AND Lycanroc-Zoroark. It can stomp out virtually everything else.
Which tier 1 decks does it struggle against? It's garb matchup is great other than Necrozma, because you one shot everything else with little item maintenance, Shell Trap and Baby Volc does wonders against Night March, and it should run 50-50 if not, better than Turbo Dark. Against Gardy, you discard Energy, and run 50-50 with it, if not better because Turt should mean the prize trade slightly favors you. Lycanroc/ Zoroark, yeah, I can see that not being so kind to Turbo Turtles, but it's not a real meta deck yet. Whether or not it'll be a relevant contender in Dallas depends on San Jose results, and it doesn't take much to tech a Sudowoodo into anything, since it's already used by people as a Turbo Dark counter.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
Which tier 1 decks does it struggle against? It's garb matchup is great other than Necrozma, because you one shot everything else with little item maintenance, Shell Trap and Baby Volc does wonders against Night March, and it should run 50-50 if not, better than Turbo Dark. Against Gardy, you discard Energy, and run 50-50 with it, if not better because Turt should mean the prize trade slightly favors you. Lycanroc/ Zoroark, yeah, I can see that not being so kind to Turbo Turtles, but it's not a real meta deck yet. Whether or not it'll be a relevant contender in Dallas depends on San Jose results, and it doesn't take much to tech a Sudowoodo into anything, since it's already used by people as a Turbo Dark counter.

From what I've reserached, it has unfavorable matchups to Garb-NEcrozma Toolbox (doesn't Mimikyu also give Turbo Turtles problems?), Gardy, and Night March.

As for Zoroark decks. From what I'm reading, the Lycanroc-Zoroark and straight Zoroark variant is to be favorite variant going in. With the Night March variant being sort of up in the air and the Golisopod variant being the weakest.

I think the Night March variant could be a good contender, but only in the hands of a skilled Night March player like Peter Kica. I think the addition of Zoroark could be a bit much and I think that, if it does work, we'll see refined versions of it in Dallas. Provided that one actually does well. But again, I don't see the Night March version being the popular variant.
 

gumball51321

*thumbs up*
Member
From what I've reserached, it has unfavorable matchups to Garb-NEcrozma Toolbox (doesn't Mimikyu also give Turbo Turtles problems?), Gardy, and Night March.

As for Zoroark decks. From what I'm reading, the Lycanroc-Zoroark and straight Zoroark variant is to be favorite variant going in. With the Night March variant being sort of up in the air and the Golisopod variant being the weakest.

I think the Night March variant could be a good contender, but only in the hands of a skilled Night March player like Peter Kica. I think the addition of Zoroark could be a bit much and I think that, if it does work, we'll see refined versions of it in Dallas. Provided that one actually does well. But again, I don't see the Night March version being the popular variant.
Turtonator discards 2 fire Energy, so Mimikyu can't copy Bright Flame. Gardy shouldn't give Turbo Turtles problems, when you completely leave them in the dust at the beginning of the game, and limit their damage while making them HAVE to have an extra energy to make up for the 190 HP in comparison to Volcanion. Night March is debatable, but Shell Trap should do some work. And if you play AZ, then you scoop up the damaged Turt, OHKO a Night Marcher with Shell Trap, and if they attack you with something other than Shaymin or Marshadow, they're going to get KO'd. This is assuming Zoroark isn't a factor. But with a Muscle Band and a Steam Up, you OHKO Zoroark. Actually, forget if that deck plays Muscle Band(I don't think it does, actually), so make that 2 Steam Ups. And that isn't hard to do.
 

Laurier_Ex

Ninja master
Member
Any good player playing a good deck can beat Ninjabox.

Thats what the last pro player told me too and i went 1-1 against his Turbo Darkrai deck and went 1-0 against his Turtle/Volcanion deck. I can prove you wrong anyday pick your deck and come i will show you.

No one plays it because it can't consistently win games. And no one techs against it because it can't consistently win games.

No one plays it because no one figured out how to play it except me.

It most definitely does lose to Trees, Frogs as a whole is a terrible deck if the pilot isn't really skilled with it. Night March, eh, I can see that. Seismitoad, like Frogs, is terrible if the pilot isn't really good with the deck. Zoroark isn't a meta deck yet( despite everyone acting like it is, it has yet to have any relevant results). Garb/ Necrozma would absolutely destroy you. Once Necrozma Black Rays you, everything on your field is now in KO range. Drampa isn't a deck by itself, but either way, Righteous Edge discards all of your precious special Energy. Golisopod is debatable, but I can see that happening. And Turbo Turtles? Yeah, good luck, it's the fastest deck in the format.

- It totally owns Trees unless they play Silent lab or have an awkward deck list. Most Tree decks only play Ability attackers and you can just use Latias-Ex and completely destroy them.
- It owns Frogs with Giratina Promo and Glaceon-Ex
- It destroys Nightmarch with Jolteon-Ex and Karen
- It destroys Seismitoad with Jolteon/Comfey
- It destroys most Zoroark decks with Glaceon-Ex/Latias-Ex with the switch onto Tauros-Gx or Machamp-Ex for the OHKO.
- Garb/Necrozma is not a one way matchup. If you can setup without using too many items you got good odds. Latias-Ex is imuned to Necrozma, Jolteon-Ex is imuned to Necrozma also if he uses Flash Ray and Mr. Mime protects all benched pokemon.
- Drampa is not a problem you just bench Magearna and he can't use Righteous edge on you.
- Golisopod does not take OHKO and can be beaten with Glaceon-Ex, Tauros-Gx and Machamp-Ex.
- Turbo Turtles is beatable with Jolteon-Ex and Tauros-Gx/Machamp-Ex. I owned the last pro I played against.

Dallas regionals is going to be a LOT of SableGarb. For whatever reason, people suddenly praise it like it's BDIF, despite only a small handful T32 or better the entire season. I love the deck, but it has a lot of problems. Item lock, N, an unfavorable Turbo Turtles matchup. Garb is still arguably BDIF, but by the time Dallas comes around, I think it will just be common instinct how to beat it. Unless something else relevant to the fact comes of power, I think Turbo Turtles will win the event, but that's based on nothing but educated guessing. It has great matchups, it's super fast, and there's currently nothing stopping the deck from doing well.

Actually Sableye/Garb is a bad matchup for the deck unless you switch 1 card and include Seismitoad-Ex for the matchup.

All you are saying here is false and you obviously never played the deck. No one believes me and as i said, i am like the one fool who believed the earth was round while everybody was certain it was flat. Try it out and see for yourself. I found the way to make it work and some other people just improving my deck would probably do even better than I am doing. The fact is that i developped this deck over the past year playing nearly a thousand games with it and the results i have with the deck are solid. I challenge you anywhere anytime and prove you wrong.
 

Laurier_Ex

Ninja master
Member
The secret of this deck is to drop draw supporters and focus only on Ninja Boy. Make sure you can shrink your bench to deny Guzma or Lysandre. Stall until they can hit you (as long as they can'T OHKO) and then switch into Tauros-Gx or Machamp-Ex for the OHKO. Rainbow and Prism energy gives you access to Comfey and Magearna as supporters and this is big. Prevents the deck from loosing to decks relying on special conditions like paralysing effects or such things as Righteous Edge.

The only deck i found no answers to is Xerneas Break because it uses both basic and evolved 1 prize attackers that don't have abilities.

Yes i do tech all those different pokémons in my deck and yes it works because i play 4 Ninja Boy copies. I could not care less which pokémon falls into the active cause i am almost certain i will be able to pull the right pokémon i need with Ninja Boy next turn. And i can't care less on what pokémon i attach my energy onto because i can turn it into any pokémon.

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 18

* 1 Drampa-GX GRI 115
* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Tauros-GX SUM 100
* 1 Latias-EX PLF 85
* 1 Comfey GRI 93
* 1 Mr. Mime GEN 52
* 1 Machamp-EX AOR 90
* 1 Electrike PRC 60
* 1 Jolteon-EX GEN 28
* 1 Magearna-EX STS 110
* 1 Giratina PR-XY XY184
* 1 Shining Mew SLG 40
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 2 Unown AOR 30
* 1 Glaceon-EX FCO 20

##Trainer Cards - 31

* 1 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 1 Mallow GRI 127
* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 1 Lillie SUM 147
* 2 Parallel City BKT 145
* 1 Scramble Switch PLS 129
* 1 N FCO 105
* 1 Choice Band GRI 121
* 1 Colress PLS 135
* 1 Karen PR-XY XY177
* 4 Ninja Boy STS 103
* 4 Ultra Ball FCO 113
* 1 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 2 Field Blower GRI 163
* 2 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Lysandre FLF 104
* 1 Sky Field ROS 89

##Energy - 11

* 3 Rainbow Energy SUM 137
* 4 Prism Energy NXD 93
* 4 Double Colorless Energy XY 130

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
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gumball51321

*thumbs up*
Member
Thats what the last pro player told me too and i went 1-1 against his Turbo Darkrai deck and went 1-0 against his Turtle/Volcanion deck. I can prove you wrong anyday pick your deck and come i will show you.



No one plays it because no one figured out how to play it except me.



- It totally owns Trees unless they play Silent lab or have an awkward deck list. Most Tree decks only play Ability attackers and you can just use Latias-Ex and completely destroy them.
- It owns Frogs with Giratina Promo and Glaceon-Ex
- It destroys Nightmarch with Jolteon-Ex and Karen
- It destroys Seismitoad with Jolteon/Comfey
- It destroys most Zoroark decks with Glaceon-Ex/Latias-Ex with the switch onto Tauros-Gx or Machamp-Ex for the OHKO.
- Garb/Necrozma is not a one way matchup. If you can setup without using too many items you got good odds. Latias-Ex is imuned to Necrozma, Jolteon-Ex is imuned to Necrozma also if he uses Flash Ray and Mr. Mime protects all benched pokemon.
- Drampa is not a problem you just bench Magearna and he can't use Righteous edge on you.
- Golisopod does not take OHKO and can be beaten with Glaceon-Ex, Tauros-Gx and Machamp-Ex.
- Turbo Turtles is beatable with Jolteon-Ex and Tauros-Gx/Machamp-Ex. I owned the last pro I played against.



Actually Sableye/Garb is a bad matchup for the deck unless you switch 1 card and include Seismitoad-Ex for the matchup.

All you are saying here is false and you obviously never played the deck. No one believes me and as i said, i am like the one fool who believed the earth was round while everybody was certain it was flat. Try it out and see for yourself. I found the way to make it work and some other people just improving my deck would probably do even better than I am doing. The fact is that i developped this deck over the past year playing nearly a thousand games with it and the results i have with the deck are solid. I challenge you anywhere anytime and prove you wrong.
I would accept your challenge if it were possible. I only have a school computer, so Skype is out of the question. I don't play PTCGO, so getting the cards I would need would be time consuming and probably monetarily difficult. The only available resource I'd have is TCG One, but it's out of date, has broken cards, and freezes on me frequently. Honestly, do you really believe out of everyone in the world, you're the only player to make this deck work? That's just ignorant. I know that I'm being ignorant to your points, but Jesus Christ, don't flatter yourself so much. All Latias does against Trees is turn off item lock. They can still attack your bench. And with all of the different Pokemon you play, you're going to deadraw. A LOT. That's why nobody played Alex Schemanske's Vilebox list after he got 2nd at Florida last year. The constant toolbox attacking that you do isn't nearly enough to win games. That why Vileplume was added at the time to give the deck a chance at actually doing anything relevant. But wait, it was still bad because it the terrible hands. And playing virtually no draw support doesn't help in the slightest. You know that matchups aren't one-sided right? If you have so little draw support, and only 5 bench spaces, how do you expect to draw exactly what you need? Assuming that you have a Shaymin and a Lele on your bench, you essentially leave yourself with 3 spaces on your bench. And when your only active Mon gets KO'd, you have to put something up. Out of the actual attackers that you have, only Tauros can use it's attack for 1 Energy attachment. And again, Drampa isn't played by itself. It's basically only a one-of in Garb, which has Garbotoxin, which shuts off Magearna. They also play Guzma. Literally everything plays Guzma. Why make a deck where all of your attackers are 1-ofs?
 

Laurier_Ex

Ninja master
Member
I would accept your challenge if it were possible. I only have a school computer, so Skype is out of the question. I don't play PTCGO, so getting the cards I would need would be time consuming and probably monetarily difficult.

Thats a shame, i would've liked to play against you since you look like a very good player.

Honestly, do you really believe out of everyone in the world, you're the only player to make this deck work? That's just ignorant. I know that I'm being ignorant to your points, but Jesus Christ, don't flatter yourself so much.

I have looked over on the internet and the only think that is similar to this deck is the old Mew-Ex toolbox and Marshadow-Gx toolbox and they both work on a different mechanic (Mew-Ex needs the pokémon on your bench and Marshadow-Gx in your discard pile while my Ninja Box relies on them being in your deck) and don't revolve around Ninja Box but stick with the usual Sycamore/N draw engine. I would be ignorant if i actually did not look deeply into all what is existant on the net and just came talking shit after playing 10 games with the deck. That is not the case at all.

All Latias does against Trees is turn off item lock. They can still attack your bench.

Ability: Bright Down
Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokémon by your opponent's Pokémon with Abilities.

Barrier Break 70
This attack's damage isn't affected by Weakness, Resistance, or any other effects on the Defending Pokémon.



Bright Down makes you imuned to all pokémon with abilities. Most Trev decks play Trevenant, Necrozma and Tapu Lele and all of those pokémon cannot attack Latias-Ex since they all have abilities. Trevenant decks do not play Hex Maniac, they only occasionally play Silent Lab instead of Dimension Valley.

And with all of the different Pokemon you play, you're going to deadraw. A LOT. That's why nobody played Alex Schemanske's Vilebox list after he got 2nd at Florida last year. The constant toolbox attacking that you do isn't nearly enough to win games. That why Vileplume was added at the time to give the deck a chance at actually doing anything relevant. But wait, it was still bad because it the terrible hands.

Drawing the wrong pokémon is not an issue, you play 4 copy of Ninja Boy. You could not care less which pokémon is in your hand. In regards to drawing, let me count the cards for you that can get you out of this:

- 4 Ultra Balls
- 4 Ninja Boy (as long as you have 1 energy in your hand you could Ninja Boy into Drampa-Gx and Big Wheel)
- 2 Shaymin-Ex
- 2 Tapu Lele Gx
- 2 Trainers Mail
- 3 draw supporters (Lillie, N, Mallow)
- Drampa
- To a lesser extend, Unown and Colress

So in total lets just say that you have about 1/4 of your deck that can help you out of dead draw. It could be better it could be worse. I doubt that Vilebox as so many out's but thats soemthing i am definitely ignorant of so i won't debate on that point whit you.

And playing virtually no draw support doesn't help in the slightest. You know that matchups aren't one-sided right? If you have so little draw support, and only 5 bench spaces, how do you expect to draw exactly what you need? Assuming that you have a Shaymin and a Lele on your bench, you essentially leave yourself with 3 spaces on your bench. And when your only active Mon gets KO'd, you have to put something up.

I am very pleased that you mention this because this is exactly why i am the only one who as been able to make this deck work. The three main problems that needed to be solved in order for this deck to work were bench space, being able to have a backup attacker ready on your bench (without it being susceptible to get destroyed by Guzma or Lysandre) and finding a way to draw without the usual supporters (Sycamore/N) without making it a bad deck. I have been confronted to this problem and after tweaking and testing for a very long time i found a way to solve those problems. And yes i flatter myself very much for this. Let me explain to you.

Ninja Boy is used as a draw supporter and a bench manipulator for the deck. You recycle Shaymin with Ninja Boy and you clear you bench all at once. While you use Sycamore to draw, I use Shaymin and then clear the bench using Ninja Boy on the said Shaymin to turn it into Unown or Electrike to remove those prizes and free bench space. It achieves basically the same as your Sycamore or N with no downside since i remove the easy prizes from the bench. You don't want to go through all your cards with this deck since you need the pokémons in your deck to make Ninja Boy work. You only want to draw as much as you need to in order to get things going. This deck is meant to draw a lot early on and then slow the pace. As you can see the deck also includes Parallel City and Sky Field to further help with bench manipulation. You either get what you need without having to draw much or you expand your bench with Skyfield, drop as many pokémon as you like on your bench and then shrink it back with Parallel city and finish by using Unown so that you are not left with 0 bench space. Heck, you can go from a full Sky Field bench and down to 0 prizes (if you have a rope or you use Lycanroc's Thirsty Eye ability i guess you would have access to 1 prize since it can bypass Electrike's Omega trait but that's all). This is how you make a stall deck work, not letting your opponent have access to easy prizes on your bench.

Out of the actual attackers that you have, only Tauros can use it's attack for 1 Energy attachment. And again, Drampa isn't played by itself. It's basically only a one-of in Garb, which has Garbotoxin, which shuts off Magearna.

Garbotoxin rarely comes online very quickly. Righteous edge is a problem for the first few turns of the game after that it becomes irrelevant. It is usually not the problem.

They also play Guzma. Literally everything plays Guzma. Why make a deck where all of your attackers are 1-ofs?

Guzma is countered by Electrike or Regirock with Omega trait. They can't Guzma your backup attacker. And as i said, you wan't to avoid having free prizes on your bench because this is a stall deck.

You are free to believe that this deck is crap like everyone else. Believe that the earth is flat like everyone does and bash the poor guy saying it is actually round. But please don't come and say i am ignorant whilst you actually have 0 clue how the deck works. Before telling people they are ignorant you actually have to know what you are talking about.
 

swaginator5000

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Thats a shame, i would've liked to play against you since you look like a very good player.



I have looked over on the internet and the only think that is similar to this deck is the old Mew-Ex toolbox and Marshadow-Gx toolbox and they both work on a different mechanic (Mew-Ex needs the pokémon on your bench and Marshadow-Gx in your discard pile while my Ninja Box relies on them being in your deck) and don't revolve around Ninja Box but stick with the usual Sycamore/N draw engine. I would be ignorant if i actually did not look deeply into all what is existant on the net and just came talking shit after playing 10 games with the deck. That is not the case at all.



Ability: Bright Down
Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokémon by your opponent's Pokémon with Abilities.

Barrier Break 70
This attack's damage isn't affected by Weakness, Resistance, or any other effects on the Defending Pokémon.



Bright Down makes you imuned to all pokémon with abilities. Most Trev decks play Trevenant, Necrozma and Tapu Lele and all of those pokémon cannot attack Latias-Ex since they all have abilities. Trevenant decks do not play Hex Maniac, they only occasionally play Silent Lab instead of Dimension Valley.



Drawing the wrong pokémon is not an issue, you play 4 copy of Ninja Boy. You could not care less which pokémon is in your hand. In regards to drawing, let me count the cards for you that can get you out of this:

- 4 Ultra Balls
- 4 Ninja Boy (as long as you have 1 energy in your hand you could Ninja Boy into Drampa-Gx and Big Wheel)
- 2 Shaymin-Ex
- 2 Tapu Lele Gx
- 2 Trainers Mail
- 3 draw supporters (Lillie, N, Mallow)
- Drampa
- To a lesser extend, Unown and Colress

So in total lets just say that you have about 1/4 of your deck that can help you out of dead draw. It could be better it could be worse. I doubt that Vilebox as so many out's but thats soemthing i am definitely ignorant of so i won't debate on that point whit you.



I am very pleased that you mention this because this is exactly why i am the only one who as been able to make this deck work. The three main problems that needed to be solved in order for this deck to work were bench space, being able to have a backup attacker ready on your bench (without it being susceptible to get destroyed by Guzma or Lysandre) and finding a way to draw without the usual supporters (Sycamore/N) without making it a bad deck. I have been confronted to this problem and after tweaking and testing for a very long time i found a way to solve those problems. And yes i flatter myself very much for this. Let me explain to you.

Ninja Boy is used as a draw supporter and a bench manipulator for the deck. You recycle Shaymin with Ninja Boy and you clear you bench all at once. While you use Sycamore to draw, I use Shaymin and then clear the bench using Ninja Boy on the said Shaymin to turn it into Unown or Electrike to remove those prizes and free bench space. It achieves basically the same as your Sycamore or N with no downside since i remove the easy prizes from the bench. You don't want to go through all your cards with this deck since you need the pokémons in your deck to make Ninja Boy work. You only want to draw as much as you need to in order to get things going. This deck is meant to draw a lot early on and then slow the pace. As you can see the deck also includes Parallel City and Sky Field to further help with bench manipulation. You either get what you need without having to draw much or you expand your bench with Skyfield, drop as many pokémon as you like on your bench and then shrink it back with Parallel city and finish by using Unown so that you are not left with 0 bench space. Heck, you can go from a full Sky Field bench and down to 0 prizes (if you have a rope or you use Lycanroc's Thirsty Eye ability i guess you would have access to 1 prize since it can bypass Electrike's Omega trait but that's all). This is how you make a stall deck work, not letting your opponent have access to easy prizes on your bench.



Garbotoxin rarely comes online very quickly. Righteous edge is a problem for the first few turns of the game after that it becomes irrelevant. It is usually not the problem.



Guzma is countered by Electrike or Regirock with Omega trait. They can't Guzma your backup attacker. And as i said, you wan't to avoid having free prizes on your bench because this is a stall deck.

You are free to believe that this deck is crap like everyone else. Believe that the earth is flat like everyone does and bash the poor guy saying it is actually round. But please don't come and say i am ignorant whilst you actually have 0 clue how the deck works. Before telling people they are ignorant you actually have to know what you are talking about.
Nobody on this forum will ever belive you until you prove them wrong with an actual tournament result like a league cup win, and even then it will be questionable. This thread has now turned from meta discussion to a rant fest about your deck and another players opposite opinions.
 

swaginator5000

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Back to meta discussion here is the incomplete top 32.
Day 2 Players/Decks for San Jose
1. Jon Eng - Zoroark GX/Golisopod GX
2. Ryan Allred - Gardevoir GX
3. Dennis Perez - Gardevoir GX
4. Ahmed Ali - Gyarados
5. Eduardo Gonzalez - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX
6. Rahul Reddy - Night March
7. Benjamin Salonga - Zoroark GX/Golisopod GX
8. Alex Mullen
9. Brandon Jones - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX
10. Christian Keiser
11. Kian Amini - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
12. Brian Ortiz
13. Bradley Curcio - Night March
14. Sam Hough - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
15. Colter Decker
16. Bodhi Tracy
17. Rukan Shao - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX/Alolan Muk
18. Liam Williams - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
19. Drew Kennett - Wailord EX/Wishiwashi GX
20. Emmanuek Jacobs
21. Azul Garcia Griego - Night March
22. Nathian Beck
23. Ruben Cisca
24. Michael Pramawat - Night March
25. David Reis
26. Dennis Jasper Moore - Gardevoir GX
27. Justin Kinney
28. Francisco Sermeno - Night March
29. Simon Narode - Zoroark GX
30. Peter Kica - Night March
31. Ravyn Pollock - Gardevoir GX
32. John Collins - Zoroark GX

Zoroark is now officially an archetype and it scared away all the trees. Also nobody showed up to play sablyeye/garb but Drew brought back the whale.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
Back to meta discussion here is the incomplete top 32.
Day 2 Players/Decks for San Jose
1. Jon Eng - Zoroark GX/Golisopod GX
2. Ryan Allred - Gardevoir GX
3. Dennis Perez - Gardevoir GX
4. Ahmed Ali - Gyarados
5. Eduardo Gonzalez - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX
6. Rahul Reddy - Night March
7. Benjamin Salonga - Zoroark GX/Golisopod GX
8. Alex Mullen
9. Brandon Jones - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX
10. Christian Keiser
11. Kian Amini - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
12. Brian Ortiz
13. Bradley Curcio - Night March
14. Sam Hough - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
15. Colter Decker
16. Bodhi Tracy
17. Rukan Shao - Zoroark GX/Lycanroc GX/Alolan Muk
18. Liam Williams - Zoroark GX/Alolan Muk/Seismitoad EX
19. Drew Kennett - Wailord EX/Wishiwashi GX
20. Emmanuek Jacobs
21. Azul Garcia Griego - Night March
22. Nathian Beck
23. Ruben Cisca
24. Michael Pramawat - Night March
25. David Reis
26. Dennis Jasper Moore - Gardevoir GX
27. Justin Kinney
28. Francisco Sermeno - Night March
29. Simon Narode - Zoroark GX
30. Peter Kica - Night March
31. Ravyn Pollock - Gardevoir GX
32. John Collins - Zoroark GX

Zoroark is now officially an archetype and it scared away all the trees. Also nobody showed up to play sablyeye/garb but Drew brought back the whale.

I know for a fact that Sableye-Garb showed up (Jimmy Pendarvis and Igor Costa are the only two I could confirm).

Didn’t do so well. Not sure if it’s because of the Zoroark matchups or what. Looking into it.
 

Laurier_Ex

Ninja master
Member
Nobody on this forum will ever belive you until you prove them wrong with an actual tournament result like a league cup win, and even then it will be questionable. This thread has now turned from meta discussion to a rant fest about your deck and another players opposite opinions.

As i already stated in another post, it will never happen. I live in a very small village where no one plays PTCG. I would need to actually travel for at least 4 hours to find a few players that play the game. If someone doubts that this deck can actually be competitive and wants some prove of it, i will be very happy to show them what this deck is capable of. Just make the best deck you can and come on PTCGO and i will show you it's potential. This deck will actually be able to face Solgaleo-Gx Mane when it releases.

You see, there are too kinds of people in life:

1. Those that are obviously like you and follow behind the others and walk in their tracks. They will not take the risk of leaving the path. The unknown scares them.

2. People who do not follow the others. They will take their own path, take the risks for the others.

You are free to believe what you want and you are free to do as you please but let me tell you one thing. It is not people like you who made it possible for mankind to walk on the moon.
 

Anthony Orosco

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Looks like the deck to beat in Dallas will be Zoroark variants. Especially the Lycanroc and Golisopod lists. Gardevoir might see a slight rise in popularity, and Trees may just go unplayed. Night March is still plagued by as expected, with only a few skilled players like Pram sliding into day 2. Ahmed is opting out of Gardy and jumping on the Gyarados train which shows to be a good play for him. For those hoping to make day 2 in Dallas this January, here's what you probably should test against:
  • Every flavor of Zoroark
  • Gardy
  • The mirror match for those who choose to counter the meta
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
Looks like the deck to beat in Dallas will be Zoroark variants. Especially the Lycanroc and Golisopod lists. Gardevoir might see a slight rise in popularity, and Trees may just go unplayed. Night March is still plagued by as expected, with only a few skilled players like Pram sliding into day 2. Ahmed is opting out of Gardy and jumping on the Gyarados train which shows to be a good play for him. For those hoping to make day 2 in Dallas this January, here's what you probably should test against:
  • Every flavor of Zoroark
  • Gardy
  • The mirror match for those who choose to counter the meta

I think Trevenant will make a resurgence. Maybe not a big one, but if they focus their disruption efforts on Enhanced hammers and maybe Espeon EX as a tech. Could work out. I predict that someone will go far with it now that we know what the good Zoroark variants are going to look like.

I think Zoroark-Seismitoad and Zoroark-Lycanroc will be the big ones to playtest against.

I agree that Gardy will still be popular, despite getting thrashed in top 32.
 

swaginator5000

Aspiring Trainer
Member
@Anthony Orosco id agree with pretty much everything you said and would note that golisopod zoroark is being considered the weakest of the variants. And trees may just completely disappeare for the time being.

@Laurier_Ex you know nothing about me and your assumptions could not be further from the truth, but if you would like to know PM me an dont waste space in this thread.
 
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