Ruling Miltank and Gengar SM4

[Yumikora]

Miltank – Colorless – HP100
Basic Pokemon

Ability: Moo Moo Ale
As long as this Pokemon is your Active Pokemon, when you attach an Energy from your hand to 1 of your Pokemon, you may heal 90 damage from that Pokemon.

[C][C][C] Hip Drop: 60+ damage. Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 30 more damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2

Gengar – Psychic – HP130
Stage 2 – Evolves from Haunter

Ability: Eroding Curse
Whenever your opponent attaches an Energy from their hand to 1 of their Pokemon, place 2 damage counters on that Pokemon.

[P][C][C] Pitch Dark: 70 damage. Your opponent’s Active Pokemon is now Confused.

Weakness: Darkness (x2)
Resistance: Fighting (-20)
Retreat: 0

Which ability will take effect first? Will the Pokémon be knock out if Gengars ability take effect before Miltanks and the 20 damage brings it in knock out range?

 

[treyh37]

both effects happen at the same time, so the player that owns the effected Pokémon gets to decide which order they happen in. Also the check for KO doesn't happen tell all effects have been completed.

 

[Nyora]

I'm pretty sure that's wrong, but I could be wrong. I think in a situation like this, the healing effect would go first.

 

[jessalakasam]

At my first prerelease I was told what @rainyman123 said, the second, I was told what @treyh37 said.

 

[treyh37]

my response is the correct one, the rules team responded to this same question the other day.

 

[Nyora]

Sorry, I'm going to want some proof of this, honestly I think in a situation like this, they wouldnt let you just simply choose which one goes first, it just doesn't make sense. It makes more sense for one or the other to happen first, and i think it's the healing effect.

 

[Otaku]

Wait, I'm confused (gee, that's happening a lot lately).

Miltank heals your Pokémon when you attach an Energy to one of them from hand.

Gengar hurts your opponent's Pokémon when your opponent attaches an Energy to one of them from hand.

These two only trigger at the same time when controlled by two different players. The ruling @treyh37 sounds like he's trying to reference is for when a single player controls both effect. Could I be mistaken? Just like the answer to do I overuse bold text: absolutely! XD

 

[treyh37]

from the prof forums

question:

Gengar has an ability 'Eroding Curse - Whenever your opponent attaches an Energy from their hand to 1 of their Pokémon, put 2 damage counters on that Pokémon.'

Miltank also has an ability 'Moo Moo Malt- As long as this Pokémon is your Active Pokémon, when you attach an Energy card from your hand to 1 of your Pokémon, heal 90 damage from it.'

So what happens to the miltank if it has say 20/100 hitpoints remaining, is active and you attach energy?

We reasoned that it happens simultaneously, and KO is checked at the end so if its 20+90-20 vs 20-20+90 it doesn't matter since it is all simultaneous.

Was this the correct outcome?

Answer:

Well, it does matter which order you do it in.
If the healing takes place first and then damage is applied, you're going to wind up with 20 damage on the Pokemon.
But if it's the other way around, unless the Pokemon already has 90 damage on it, then all damage will be healed or at most 10 damage will be left.

Luckily, the player that owns the effected Pokemon gets to choose the order that the two simultaneous effects are applied.
Hopefully they choose the correct order.

also here's another example from the compendium

Q. If you have Flygon with "Sand Slammer" active, but the opponent has Serperior with "Royal Heal" in play, which Ability goes first? The one that places damage or the one that heals damage?
A. In this situation, the player whose Pokemon are being affected gets to choose the order of when the abilities take place. (Nov 1, 2012 TPCi Rules Team)

hope this clears things up

 

[Nyora]

That's a stupid ruling tbh, needs to be changed.

 

[Otaku]

That's a stupid ruling tbh, needs to be changed.

*shrugs*

Pokémon doesn't have "chains" like most other games do, and that is a design decision. So on the rare occasion you run into a situation like this, I guess the owner of the affected Pokémon decided.

 

[Connor Ritter]

Wait if you decide to place the damage first then heal wouldn't that knock out your Pokemon before it gets to heal? The professor's example above allows it to reach 0 hp before healing for the 90 hp. That doesn't seem right when checking for the knock out.

They should really make a more formal order of operations decision concerning healing, damage, removing damage counters & adding damage counters.

 

[PMJ]

Any time it is your turn and your Pokemon is affected by two affects at the same time (i.e. poison vs a 10 heal between turns, or this), you as the controlling player get to decide the order in which they are applied. This has been the case since day one. It doesn't often matter but when it does, that's how it is.

Wait if you decide to place the damage first then heal wouldn't that knock out your Pokemon before it gets to heal? The professor's example above allows it to reach 0 hp before healing for the 90 hp. That doesn't seem right when checking for the knock out.

They should really make a more formal order of operations decision concerning healing, damage, removing damage counters & adding damage counters.

No, because you don't check for KOs until after everything has been resolved. Think of the damage as like a weight that is suspended over your Pokemon. As long as it's suspended you can add to or remove from it. But once everything has been resolved and the damage can finally be applied to your Pokemon, that is when you check to see if it has taken on more damage than it can handle. Since both are resolved at the same time, you have to apply both effects and then check for a KO.