Discussion Lapras GX vs Palkia EX

[TheDude133]

With the release of SM2, we get access to Aqua Patch, which is a huge buff to water Pokemon. I've had this discussion with a couple people at my locals, but I'd love to know the community's thoughts. Who do you think will be the better water attacker to build a deck around, Palkia EX or Lapras GX?

Here's my view points:

Palkia EX
Pros:
Great energy acceleration that damages.
Good damage attack with extra bench damage.
180 Pre-FFB

Cons:
Energy cost for Aqua Turbo is hard to hit turn one.
Pearl Hurricane also has big energy cost even with an Aqua Turbo.
No one shot potential.

Lapras GX
Pros:
Blizzard Burn does 170 with FFB which OHKOs that's like Giratina EX or hits 180 with Kukui with OHKOs every EX that isn't Mega.
Ice Beam GX has a status effect and great damage.
Collect is great draw power.

Cons:
Niether damaging attack can be used turn one safe very rare situations.
Blizzard Burn stops that Lapras from attacking, so a second attacker is needed for constant damage.

Personally, I think Palkia EX is the better attacker due to its energy acceleration, and damage spread with Pearl Hurricane. And can be played similar to Yveltal in Turbo Dark where you use the first Palkia EX solely for Aqua Turbo, then clean up later with the charged Palkias to 2HKO everything.

One thing I do want to point out however is in not saying you can't mix the two, I'm saying that I believe Palkia as a main attacker is better.

 

[mirdo]

Aright. So I pretty much only play Water Decks. And i love Palkia quite a lot.
Pearl Hurricane might not 1HKO most of the Time. But it's always pretty much always a 2HKO. Either with a second direct hit or (my favorite) forcing opponent to switch and then kill him off with the Bench Damage.

Palkia just is very versetaile. I usually play 3 of em. Bcs its usually not that bad to start with it. Because you want to accelerate Energy with it Asap. And you can just Accelerate another Palkia with Palkia.
Sure Palkia is heavy. But once it's rolling and you have thing to accelerate Energy to on the bench it's hard to stop. Because till you opponent got you down you have donr 40 or 80 damage already (Making sure you'll get the K/o after) and build up something powerfull in the back.

PLUS it's a great target for a Ninjaboy into a Tauros. Whats not to love?
A down side is that you have to put both Energy on the same mon. But just put in some Energy switches (which you need anyway to hopefully get that Turn one Water Turbo) and your guchi.

It usually has a good matchup against about anything. Decudiplume is the biggest problem. Maybe the Bee but that's not that common in the Meta anymore anyway.

I also play one Lapras because as you said it's quite powerfull. So you can't disregard it. But you also have to be mobile to play it because else you just won't have consistent damage. So both are quite a good combination. Especially when you have that Manaphy on the bench.

In conclusion. You can't really compare the two as in "Who is the better card" or "Who is the better main attacker" because they both do quite diffrent things. But they have quite the good synergy.
But I also prefare Palkia tbh

 

[TheDude133]

I just don't see many water decks playing him now and focusing him, which I find strange. That's my point of this thread, is to ask the question "Which version of water is better, Lapras focus or Palkia focus?" And you definitely seem Palkia focused.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Here's the deal. Pokemon like Palkia-EX are used for utility. Take a look at Darkrai-EX. No one uses it for its Dark Head attack, they use it for Dark Pulse. Palkia-EX in this case should be the same. Use it for Aqua Turbo. Things like Max Elixir exist so use them. Your main focus should be getting Lapras-GX going and with how much Energy acceleration exist, you should be able to consistently get four energy down on your first attacking turn. With a Fighting Fury Belt, Palkia-EX's Aqua Turbo will be hitting 50 for two, which is enough damage to KO something else with Lapras. That is between 200 and 220 damage, which KOs most things.

Also, Ultra Ball and Sycamore are a thing so you'll be able to get water Energy into play via Aqua Turbo quickly so your opening turn should be to get out Palkia, get Energy to Palkia and Aqua Turbo. The best thing here is you're in no hurry to do anything at all but use Aqua Turbo, which is what I like about this deck. Your end goal is to use Blizzard Burn each turn, Palkia is the means to get there. You also run Energy Switch so you can do whatever you want.

 

[TheDude133]

Here's the

Here's the deal. Pokemon like Palkia-EX are used for utility. Take a look at Darkrai-EX. No one uses it for its Dark Head attack, they use it for Dark Pulse. Palkia-EX in this case should be the same. Use it for Aqua Turbo. Things like Max Elixir exist so use them. Your main focus should be getting Lapras-GX going and with how much Energy acceleration exist, you should be able to consistently get four energy down on your first attacking turn. With a Fighting Fury Belt, Palkia-EX's Aqua Turbo will be hitting 50 for two, which is enough damage to KO something else with Lapras. That is between 200 and 220 damage, which KOs most things.

Also, Ultra Ball and Sycamore are a thing so you'll be able to get water Energy into play via Aqua Turbo quickly so your opening turn should be to get out Palkia, get Energy to Palkia and Aqua Turbo. The best thing here is you're in no hurry to do anything at all but use Aqua Turbo, which is what I like about this deck. Your end goal is to use Blizzard Burn each turn, Palkia is the means to get there. You also run Energy Switch so you can do whatever you want.

Here's the thing though, the whole point behind this thread, is to discuss which is better to focus on. If you focus on Lapras, you're trying to get Palkia out first turn, ready to attack with AT all so you can charge your Lapras' so they can come in and blizzard burn things and tag or next turn for another. Yes, one FFB Aqua Turbo and a FFB Blizzard Burn should be able to KO everything from there, but in reality, that's not how everything is going to work. With the meta that we have right now, where many decks are playing none GX/EX Pokemon, doing 220 on a set-up Pokemon is useless. Take Grass for example, you're hitting a Rowlet or an oddish for that kind of damage. Volcanion has mini-me, Dark has Yveltal. Almost every deck in the meta has something to soak that initial 220 damage without giving up two prizes. And in reality, they are charging up Pokemon to do the same thing back at you. I honestly don't see any benifits to focus on getting the Lapras loop set up and ready to go vs seeing up a bunch of Palkias, and putting damage on board. With Laura you have to get Palkia out first, get two Lapras' and get Manaphy on board. Without Palkia start, you have to rely on patches, which you only have four of and aren't as recyclable as Dark Patch was, and Elixers to get two charges up on turn two. You need six energy in 1-2 attacking turns for your loop, ready so to with Palkia start, not as easy with Lapras start. Using blizzard burn each turn as an end goal is no difference number wise than using Pearl Hurricane every turn. Here's the hard math Blizzard Burn in two turns does 320(340) to the active, enough to kill anything. Pearl Hurricane does 240(260) to the active, enough to kill anything as long as you have FFB AND 30 to two bench Pokemon. You're going to 2HKO the active 9 times out of 10 with both decks, so in my eyes, getting a bit of damage on board to help with future KO's is better. Two PH's on the same except Target in the back plus another PH when it's active is 180(190). If that EX isn't belted, it's dying. Unless it's a mega. And with that math, that's four prizes with three attacks.

I played a lot of night spear Darkrai with it was the meta, and I played the exact same style as Palkia, set up kills three-four turns down the road so that you take massive prize wins every turn. It's what helped me take 8 prizes with Darkrai consistently, because I always had targets set up to kill. That's why I think Palkia is the better focus, because with both Pokemon you're 2HKOing things anyways, so setting up future kills is always going to be better.

 

[Otaku]

Here's the thing though, the whole point behind this thread, is to discuss which is better to focus on.

Neither. Both. You may not like it, but that is the answer, at least at present. You seem enamored with multi-turn muti-KO's, and that is fine; I like them as well! At the same time, though, I realize that it is a trade-off; I get to manipulate cards like N that depend on Prize counts but a KO isn't a KO until it is taken. That last bit is an issue because sometimes the metagame shifts to where Bench protection, healing, etc. completely trash the strategy.

We don't have Aqua Patch yet, and we still can't be sure what exactly we will receive alongside it when we do. S'cool to discuss potential future developments, but remember that it is at best probable, not guaranteed. What I can tell you from what I've experienced in the present, is that Lapras-GX is usually the go-to attacker in these decks once it is ready. Palkia-EX (BKP) is about setting up, and sometimes being the cleaner as well. Relying on just one to the exclusion of the other is unnecessary and even counterproductive, especially with Ninja Boy and the rest of the deck.