yeah, so if Archeops is a common card you're playing against, you either need to play Evosoda/Wally or a hex maniac.
Greninja BREAK
- Thread starter Asclepius24
- Start date
You'll need all of the above probably, even then it's hardly favorable to be that disrupted.
The odds of playing against Archeops though, is pretty unlikely.
As a Greninja player i was wondering what would you use instead of a 2-2 line of Octillery? I play both Octillery and Talonflame and have been really liking it, but I am trying to think of some new cards to test out. Thanks.
That depends on the list you are playing right now. I personally like bursting balloon as it causes very awkward situations for your opponent to fight through or risk giving you more time to build your golden legion.
Im already playing 2 (or 3) balloons, Ill see what i can figure out
I think this deck drops to tier 3-4, as the popularity of Garbodor increases. Almost all top tier decks have Garbodor (except M Ray and Xerneas BKT) which nullifies this deck due to absence of tool removal.
I've been using it online (I know that it's not the best testing ground) and it's been doing really good. It doesn't feel the same as it was 2 months ago but it's still not bad.
These are the things I have to note:
- Garbodor is indeed a threat until we have a tool removing card (I don't think that ratatta counts as one).
- 4x Talonflame (and 3xFroakie) will boost the set up of the deck (much safer and faster set up than it used to be)
- 4x Balloons is a MUST. You'll be able hit big numbers vs high HP decks like Megas/EXs w/ FB. I was even thinking of using 1x the tool recycler card from anc. origins but space is tight.
- Stadium control is also really important but I've still haven't settled on the numbers/stadiums. Faded Town has been prooved really good vs Mega decks, however Silent Lab can be an MVP in a match too (shuts down a potential mRay explosive first turn as well as a VolcanionEX variant etc if the cant counter it). Parallel city isn't bad, especially vs mRay but you have to remember that it can also hurt Greninja with the -20dmg. Rough seas seem worthless, at least for now anyway, since most decks aim for the 1HKO, it will rarelly make a difference.
- Using a big good amount of Level Balls and Ultra Balls really helps in having as many Greninja out as posssible.
- Prizing more than 1 Frogadier most probably will result in a loss. (duh)
I'd say that the deck is no worse than Tier 3 (maybe could be prooved to be Tier 2). It has some bad matchups but vs any it can also do really really well vs others.
Cards that I might test in the future:
Max Elixir, ?xRare Candies + 1x Skyla, -4 Talonflames +1Froakie +3 more ultra + level balls
I only play PTCGO online, and yeah it's good in there. I also played the deck for at least 2 months. But the competitive scene is different from the online. The set from Talonflame could easily be countered with N and if it is badly matched up with a lot of tier decks, I say tier 3 is the best bet the Frogs could have. However, if a reliable tool removal will be printed on the next set, it can set out again to tier 2 or maybe even tier 1.
Most of the times my opponent uses N to counter my Talonflame he actually helps me and that's because I'm running at least 3-4 Trainers' Mail and at least 7-8 balls count (4 dive balls/4 ultra or 4/2/2 level ball).
Greninja will surely have some terrible matchups (Garbodor was scary even pre-rotation) and in most of them you'll just have to wish that you're lucky and your opponent won't be able to put his Garb into play.
However, not all decks run Garbodor. Greninja does really well vs the rest. I've even witnessed it going 1-1 and 2-0 vs a Vespi-Yanmega deck (mainly because of the bursting balloons).
Yeah, Tier 3 would sound the right place for Greninja for now, but since it's my all time favourite deck I'll hope that during the next months it will be able to do better.
The good strategy I've found to improve this deck's matchups against garbotoxin and megas in general is to include Pokémon catcher and Giovanni's scheme. It allows you to KO garbodor and potentially lets you swing for 220 damage with two giant water shurikens and moonlight slash.
I'm also going to try your ball balance. I was skeptical of ultra ball but I'm less concerned now without battle compressor. I haven't given up on greninja but realize it's a risky play right now.
Is there a way Greninja EX or Ash-Greninja EX can be used in this deck?
Or those cards wouldnt add anything good?
Or those cards wouldnt add anything good?
I don't like Pokemon Catcher since it relys on luck.
Giovanni doesn't sound terrible, you could cut a Faded Town and add one copy of him.
Ultra balls are great to discard the useless Talonflames. Running 3-4x copies of them will really help you get rid of Supporters (in order to use VS for them later) and thin your deck of useless cards in some matchups. I never run a Battle Compressor in Greninja, it seemed pointless, especially when Item Lock was the thing, Ultra balls on the other side can really help the deck in its current state.
No, sorry. Those cards are terrible for competitive.
The thing is that Greninja Break decks don't even use of ShayminEX because they don't want cards that can give your opponent 2 prizes.
Also, you want to bring your deck as fast and soon as possible to a point where you'll be able to use 2x Giant Water Shuriken abilities + your attack for the turn (for an extra 40dmg+ability lock or 60/80+energy return). Greninja and Talonflame having 0 retreat cost and being able to attack for good damage and effects with just 1 energy help with that too.
It's the only way to regain momentum in one turn.
True but it requires a lot of luck, not only to win the coin flip but also to have both Pokémon Catcher and Giovanni/VS seeker in hand.
And then, if you run more than 1 or 2 catchers you'll make the deck less consistent since space is tight anyway.
The only way to counter Garbodor is either try to hit Trubbish early with your Talonflame so later you can kill it with a Lysandre and Greninja or just hope that your opponent won't be able to set up a Garbodor in time. Match ups vs Garbodor are really really hard but you'll see that Bursting Balloon can actually do a lot of work there.
tldr: We'll just have to wait for a good and reliable way to counter garbotoxin
You know, I've started to notice that, when it comes to this deck, it's always at its most vulnerable at the phase where you just set up regular Greninja. If the opponent knocks out Frogadiers, that's okay since you can just choose another one to evolve into Greninja, but if you get KOed as a Greninja and don't have Splash Energy, that Greninja is gone, and this can be especially bad if you're under some sort of item lock (specifically, Vileplume Item Lock since there are attackers in those builds that at least have the potential to OHKO).
I'm using Grej Break deck as well and like most of you I haven't given up on it yet.. What do you think of the following:
- Giovann's Scheme + Escape Rope, I'm only assuming and hoping here that if he does have Garbodor w/ Float Stone he'd pull it out?
- The other was already mentioned: Pokemon Catcher + Giovanni's Scheme..
- Maybe tech 1x Hawlucha STS, to get a Trubbish out if you see em?
What do you think of the following:- Giovann's Scheme + Escape Rope, I'm only assuming and hoping here that if he does have Garbodor w/ Float Stone he'd pull it out?
- The other was already mentioned: Pokemon Catcher + Giovanni's Scheme..
- Maybe tech 1x Hawlucha STS, to get a Trubbish out if you see em?
I'm using Grej Break deck as well and like most of you I haven't given up on it yet..
- Giovann's Scheme + Escape Rope, I'm only assuming and hoping here that if he does have Garbodor w/ Float Stone he'd pull it out?
- The other was already mentioned: Pokemon Catcher + Giovanni's Scheme..
- Maybe tech 1x Hawlucha STS, to get a Trubbish out if you see em?
I'll answer your questions in the order you asked:
You can use Escape Rope anyway in this deck. It won't be really useful most of the times but provided that you have 3 Greninja Breaks (and 3-4 Water Energies on hand) on the field with Escape rope you can hit 3 GWS! Giovanni isn't bad as well, since you can hit good numbers with him and KO high HP pokemon.
Pokemon Catcher is pure luck and right now space is tight in the deck anyway, so I wouldn't even think of using 1 copy of it.
Lastly, Hawlucha work's as an escape rope and it's ABILITY based (you see where I'm going here
)I think Giovanni and Escape rope is your best bet, although I don't see it working, the cards individually can actually help Greninja though!
Also, don't give up on this deck. It's really cool, especially online. Yes Garbo shuts it down most of the times but some match ups like Gardevoir EX and Rainbow road, Volcanion Variants and really easy to win.
I don't think that Splash energy is bad in the deck, however I don't think that you'll make use of it that much since you can't discard it for a GWS and since most of the times you'll want to return it to your hand for the extra damage from moonlight slash.
The most vital stage of the game for Greninja is when you're setting up your Frogadiers.
First of all, it has to be ASAP. (so best case scenario to make your day: you go second with a water energy and a Wally in hand).
Then, if you have more than 1 Frogadier prized (once I had 3) you're pretty much done.
After this point, if you have 3 or 2 Frogadiers on your bench and you're running enough Dive balls/Ultra balls, you'll be able to have 2-3 Greninjas out.
You'll also have to run 2xSuper Rod as your frogs die pretty easy until they go Break.
I have won vs mMewtwo decks even when they had Garbodor out by making smart use of my stadiums (Faded town mostly) and Bursting Balloons but for that to happen you need at least 3 Greninjas out ASAP, then it can be pretty easy.