Discussion Hot Techs for After Rotation

[poke4trade]

@Otaku I don't think Vespiquen is viable without battle compressor, especially with the rise in popularity of mega's and EX pokemon with Fighting fury, as worlds was proof of nm and Vespiqen struggling to get knockouts on the beefier Pokemon.

Vespiquen is very viable in next format because of forest of giant plants, free retreat and DCE. It needs to be played differently because the meta is slower, but it can still hit the high 150 to 180 mark for end game knockouts. It is not the lead attacker anymore. It works as a solid backup attacker with one turn evolution's. The card is dangerous. It plays more like Zorark and mops up. Also, it can still be paired with unown which can offer just enough power for a prize exchange war. I take two. You take one. Lysandre is a harder play. In the next meta, free retreat is a big deal. Not only that, but I still haven't seen a really good deck list where only 4 dce in a deck list can survive in this format.

I think those days of power hitting off the 4 dce deck list are getting fazed out a bit. Trainers will adjust the cards to variant strategies, but the cards are not worthless in the format, just the first turn power hit strategy is evolving to something more subtle.

 

[DatSonicAce]

Vespiquen is very viable in next format because of forest of giant plants, free retreat and DCE. It needs to be played differently because the meta is slower, but it can still hit the high 150 to 180 mark for end game knockouts. It is not the lead attacker anymore. It works as a solid backup attacker with one turn evolution's. The card is dangerous. It plays more like Zorark and mops up. Also, it can still be paired with unown which can offer just enough power for a prize exchange war. I take two. You take one. Lysandre is a harder play. In the next meta, free retreat is a big deal. Not only that, but I still haven't seen a really good deck list where only 4 dce in a deck list can survive in this format.

I think those days of power hitting off the 4 dce deck list are getting fazed out a bit. Trainers will adjust the cards to variant strategies, but the cards are not worthless in the format, just the first turn power hit strategy is evolving to something more subtle.

I think Vespiquen could be shoved into Stage 1 Box as, like you said, a cleaner. (If you don't know what Stage 1 Box is, it's basically Zoroark/Zebstrika/Galvantula/Garbodor). Thoughts?

 

[poke4trade]

I think Vespiquen could be shoved into Stage 1 Box as, like you said, a cleaner. (If you don't know what Stage 1 Box is, it's basically Zoroark/Zebstrika/Galvantula/Garbodor). Thoughts?

I actually didn't know this was a thing, but I have deck online with similarities. I did not think of adding Vespiqen in it. My deck prays off shaymins with a heavy 3/3 Galvantula Line. 2/2 Zebstrika + 3/3/2 Zoroark/Zoroark break. Poke Puff is what I use to make the Shaymins drop. Yes, I think Vespiqen would work. It would require a bit of tweaking, but vespiquen unique hitting power is worth trying to figure out.

 

[CptChu]

I think Faded Town can see some plays in certain decks. That accumlation damae will add up. And it obviously discards the opponents stadium.
And its semi neutral. It will see play in decks that need to hit certain numbers and aren't reliant/need another stadium.
Sky Field
Fair Garden
Forest of Giant plants
Rough Seas
etc.
Silent lab can be pretty solid as well

I wanna run a 1 of mega catcher. Even cooler if your deck uses skyla.

But those 2 cards really rely on a mega heavy meta, which is where I think we are heading.
And again, faded town is neutral and if you can't utilize another stadium in your deck its a good tech, that and parallel city.
and still discards the opponents. Think parallel city in general will see more ones of. Your 3 main stadiums then one of the parallell.
Its so multifuncitonal. Either reduce damage, reduce their bench, or get rid of your liabilities. What's not to love?

I'd love to run deliquent more often, but usually can't find room for it.

1 enhanced hammer could also be pretty clutch. Can buy a possible turn, or get rid of their next set up poke on the bench.

Also, mew. I think mew is a pretty amazing guy. And currently underrated. Idc about his ability super much. But there are very few basic pokemon that have free retreat. mew having this ability makes it great for max elixir heavy/reliant decks. Since it can sometimes be awkward to get your active and bench energy to work. But if you're starting with an opening mew and can then max elixir for your main attacker. Then after you switch him out you got your active with hopefully a 2 energy set up.

Mew can utilize the energy too if you don't put him in active. Plus, depending on its pairings can be a good prize exchange rate for damage.

 

[Otaku]

@CptChu A Pokémon with a free Retreat, used to pull off tricks you describe is sometimes called a "pivot Pokémon". Or at least it used to be. Many combos used to and still use them, though for a while we've been relying on other effects to zero out Retreat Costs instead of having an actual free retreat.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I'll add Paint Roller may be useful for decks that don't really need any stadium cards and gives you a way around Ninetales.

 

[superdan51]

I'll add Paint Roller may be useful for decks that don't really need any stadium cards and gives you a way around Ninetales.

although we dont see it as often I really feel that paint roller is really underestimated due to the nature of the last meta. I dont know if we will see it come around that much unless pokemon like giritina or ninetails become huge which is really looking like it is, so we might start seeing it as a 1 or 2 of in a few decks

also can we take a minute to talk about klefki, like that card will surely become huge in the next meta

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

although we dont see it as often I really feel that paint roller is really underestimated due to the nature of the last meta. I dont know if we will see it come around that much unless pokemon like giritina or ninetails become huge which is really looking like it is, so we might start seeing it as a 1 or 2 of in a few decks

also can we take a minute to talk about klefki, like that card will surely become huge in the next meta

I'm trying to find a few ways to play it myself but I need to make the space. Running 3 Stadium cards and 2 Paint Rollers can really put the stadium war in your favor, even more so because of the way people play their resources. I like the idea of not being locked by Ninetails or other stadium blocking card and then getting a +1 card draw for it. I feel 2 really is the sweet spot for it.

The problem I'm having is this is like the 61st card in the deck thing and deck space is very hard to come by since other cards like E.Hammer, Energy Switch and a handful of other cards come to mind. Klefli suffers the same fate since there are always better cards to run and you now have to worry about things like Garbodor.

 

[superdan51]

I'm trying to find a few ways to play it myself but I need to make the space. Running 3 Stadium cards and 2 Paint Rollers can really put the stadium war in your favor, even more so because of the way people play their resources. I like the idea of not being locked by Ninetails or other stadium blocking card and then getting a +1 card draw for it. I feel 2 really is the sweet spot for it.

The problem I'm having is this is like the 61st card in the deck thing and deck space is very hard to come by since other cards like E.Hammer, Energy Switch and a handful of other cards come to mind. Klefli suffers the same fate since there are always better cards to run and you now have to worry about things like Garbodor.

I completely agree, ive recently been playing a lot of mega grad sts and vespiqueen and it just works so well. Mega gard can get setup turn 2 always so youre always ahead of garb, and the deck that most garbs are in is mega mewtwo which takes weakness. I feel that garb isnt a huge issue in the decks that are gonna run it, its the decks that could use it that will suffer

 

[Otaku]

I'll add Paint Roller may be useful for decks that don't really need any stadium cards and gives you a way around Ninetales.

Hmm... what about Delinquent?

 

[superdan51]

Hmm... what about Delinquent?

It is quite annoying and might have a place as a one of in most decks, but it takes away from draw power unless youre in certain situations such as dead draw or at the point where you would deck out if you pulled too many cards

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Hmm... what about Delinquent?

I suppose you can run Delinquent but your supporter for the turn may be better spend on something else. Paint Roller serves as a way to remove a stadium card and lets you draw a card. Both works but its up to you.

 

[Otaku]

Delinquent eats up my Supporter for the turn, but I feel being able to recycle (and thus use it multiple times) with VS Seeker is a fair trade. Similar to how some decks won't care much about discarding cards from hands, in some cases it is devastating.

 

[superdan51]

Delinquent eats up my Supporter for the turn, but I feel being able to recycle (and thus use it multiple times) with VS Seeker is a fair trade. Similar to how some decks won't care much about discarding cards from hands, in some cases it is devastating.

The reason im okay with it as a one of is due to the fact that I can discard it with ultra ball or sycamore whenever I need to which makes it any easy tech over paint roller because I can reuse it

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Delinquent eats up my Supporter for the turn, but I feel being able to recycle (and thus use it multiple times) with VS Seeker is a fair trade. Similar to how some decks won't care much about discarding cards from hands, in some cases it is devastating.

That is true but in some cases it doesn't really matter. Its like other one of cards in the deck. You don't mind using it if you you have nothing else to play but I think the way I play my deck, I want to use supporters to maintain my setup rather than trying to disrupt my opponent. Paint Roller is that card for me. its like Pokemon Collector or Dual Ball. My goal is to just remove the stadium. I'm testing it though to see how it works.

 

[CptChu]

That is true but in some cases it doesn't really matter. Its like other one of cards in the deck. You don't mind using it if you you have nothing else to play but I think the way I play my deck, I want to use supporters to maintain my setup rather than trying to disrupt my opponent. Paint Roller is that card for me. its like Pokemon Collector or Dual Ball. My goal is to just remove the stadium. I'm testing it though to see how it works.

To add on to this, paint roller is also Skylable. I think skyla is becoming more important to have a one of.
Deliquent is nice Don't get me wrong. But I think winning the stadium war is very important. And lets say for example you really do need to get rid of the opponents stadium this turn. You need to draw into a stadium or stadium removval, the options being paint roller vs deliquent. And with garbodor being a thing, our shaymins are less effective. And lets not forget the most reliable way of getting rid of ability lock is lysandring out the garbodor now. Which is a supporter of course.
So lets say you do a sycamore and then draw your seven cards. You have the stadiums or deliquent. Well crap if you have deliquent and no stadiums you can't remove the stadium. This can be pivotal too if you miss a 2hko option like them rough seaing/healing damage. or the mewtwo psudeo healing from shrine of memories.

And the stadium war also depletes the attak of Rayquaza.

So tldr;

Deliquent:
+ Vs Seeker
+ hand Disruption
+ Can be discarded with ultraball
+/-Supporter
-can't sycamore into it and use same turn

Paint Roller:
+Item
+SKylable
+Draw a card
+easier to get/search for in conjunction with sycamore or other hand draw cards
-can be a dead card. (Less likely with stadium war)

 

[SpoonLarry]

Delinquent is in a wierd spot for me, it's usually just a weaker N, it's so hard to punish people with this card, at least with the decks I play anyways. It has 2 conditions were as N has none and is versatile in early and late game. I actually have found a 1 of ace trainer to be far more effective, its the best early game tempo swing card in the game.

 

[CptChu]

Delinquent is in a wierd spot for me, it's usually just a weaker N, it's so hard to punish people with this card, at least with the decks I play anyways. It has 2 conditions were as N has none and is versatile in early and late game. I actually have found a 1 of ace trainer to be far more effective, its the best early game tempo swing card in the game.

Agreed, I love deliquent but its a very weird card to utilize considering the options for supporters and what you may want to do in a turn.
And also on a T1 having deliquent really sucks. If thats the only supporter you drew into.
I like a one of deliquent in decks that already utilize dirsuption. Seismitoad was great with it.
And now scizor/garb.

 

[CptChu]

Agreed, I love deliquent but its a very weird card to utilize considering the options for supporters and what you may want to do in a turn.
And also on a T1 having deliquent really sucks. If thats the only supporter you drew into.
I like a one of deliquent in decks that already utilize dirsuption. Seismitoad was great with it.
And now scizor/garb.

And N/Acetrianer being better/easier supporters to use and can create a better advantage for you

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Delinquent is in a wierd spot for me, it's usually just a weaker N, it's so hard to punish people with this card, at least with the decks I play anyways. It has 2 conditions were as N has none and is versatile in early and late game. I actually have found a 1 of ace trainer to be far more effective, its the best early game tempo swing card in the game.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Outside of a control deck, how you do benefit from having it. I found that N was always a much better way to hand disrupt. I mean if they had like 4 or less card hand then sure, it could be good bu I feel nothing else really matter. N and like you said Ace Trainer could be really harsh on the opponent.

Paint Roller on the other hand can let you win Stadium Wars, gets you a card for doing so and gets around Stadium blocking effects. At worst its E Hammer tier of usefulness and its a card that has utility and something I think is worth 2 deck spots in addition to 3 Stadium cards.