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Standard [2017 Standard] "Waterjitsu"

PatriciaWagon22

PatriciaWagon22

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokemon (19)
4 Talonflame [STS]
4 Froakie [BKP]
4 Frogadier [BKP]
4 Greninja [BKP]
3 Greninja BREAK [BKP]

Trainers (35)
4 Dive Ball
2 Max Potion
4 Bursting Balloon
3 Professor's Letter
1 Super Rod
1 Town Map
3 Trainers' Mail
3 VS Seeker
2 Fisherman
1 Lysandre
4 N
4 Professor Sycamore
3 Wally

Energy (6)
6 Water Energy
 
Have you considered running Eco Arm in order to reuse the bursting balloons? The deck list seems fairly solid, and as close as possible to the old Greninja break before the new primal clash and on format.
 
Peter Torres said:
Have you considered running Eco Arm in order to reuse the bursting balloons? The deck list seems fairly solid, and as close as possible to the old Greninja break before the new primal clash and on format.
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Does Greninja use Max Potion? Never seen it, and it almost makes sense, but not quite.
 
The main issue this deck will run into is a possible garbador tech in a deck you may face. Since there are no startling megaphones or xerosic, that will be a major factor when playing this deck that will cause dilemmas. I would increase the Lysandre count by one to compensate so you are essentially covered by all basis.
 
Peter Torres said:
The main issue this deck will run into is a possible garbador tech in a deck you may face. Since there are no startling megaphones or xerosic, that will be a major factor when playing this deck that will cause dilemmas. I would increase the Lysandre count by one to compensate so you are essentially covered by all basis.
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Good catch. I run 2 Lysandre in all my decks, always have, always will.
 
I would actually consider lowering your froakies to 3 instead of 4. You opponent can mulligan, but by doing this will also increase your chances of starting with a talon flame as starting pokemon. Additionally, I do not exactly see the point of running max potions in the deck as they will be situational. I would drop the 2 max potions and the froakie, for 3 rough seas into the deck. Otherwise, your opponent will have the stadium lock the entire game which could massively benefit them.
 
I would probably drop 2 wally's for 2 level balls, just so you have a higher chance of hitting frogadier for water dupe turn 2 without wasting your supporter for the turn. 1 Wally should be ok with the vs seekers to reuse if necessary. And I feel like 6 energy is low, since you're ditching like at least 2 per turn once your breaks are set up.
 
Koonstington said:
I would probably drop 2 wally's for 2 level balls, just so you have a higher chance of hitting frogadier for water dupe turn 2 without wasting your supporter for the turn. 1 Wally should be ok with the vs seekers to reuse if necessary. And I feel like 6 energy is low, since you're ditching like at least 2 per turn once your breaks are set up.
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Wally is very good in this deck as Greninja needs to set up as fast as possible. 2 Wally helps a lot with that. If you go 2nd you can attach, Wally into a Frogadier, and T1 Water Duplicates.
 
I feel like T1 Water Duplicates is nice to have, but not necessary. I assume the point of running Talonflame is to start with him and use his attack T1 to set up for water dupe turn 2. Running 3 Wally is going to end up being a dead card later on in the game. I think the optimal T1 would be to start with Talonflame, bench a Froakie with the help of the 4 Dive ball and 2 Level ball in case you didn't have him in your opening hand, attack and search for a Frogadier and another card depending on the situation. Then on T2, free retreat into Froakie, evolve and Water dupe then. The point of Talonflame is to increase the consistency of getting your water dupe ASAP, without relying on a lucky Wally T1.
 
Koonstington said:
I feel like T1 Water Duplicates is nice to have, but not necessary. I assume the point of running Talonflame is to start with him and use his attack T1 to set up for water dupe turn 2. Running 3 Wally is going to end up being a dead card later on in the game. I think the optimal T1 would be to start with Talonflame, bench a Froakie with the help of the 4 Dive ball and 2 Level ball in case you didn't have him in your opening hand, attack and search for a Frogadier and another card depending on the situation. Then on T2, free retreat into Froakie, evolve and Water dupe then. The point of Talonflame is to increase the consistency of getting your water dupe ASAP, without relying on a lucky Wally T1.
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Fair enough.
 
The one problem with a Lysandre defense against garbodor in this deck is that you have to string two of them per garbodor with float stone. That's a lot of turns and vs seekers lost for a deck that needs time to setup and disrupt with N. Greninja decks are going to need a way to deal with a 2-2 line of garbodor that works in one turn to allow you to eliminate the threat altogether.

-2 professor's letter
+1 super rod
+1 energy retrieval
 
This is my version:

Pokemon (17)
2 Palkia EX [BKP]
3 Froakie [BKP]
4 Frogadier [BKP]
4 Greninja [BKP]
4 Greninja BREAK [BKP]

Trainers (35)
3 Dive Ball
2 Max potion
4 Pokemon Center lady
2 Bursting Balloon
3 Professor's Letter
1 Town Map
3 Trainers' Mail
3 VS Seeker
3 Fisherman
2 Lysandre
2 Team Flare Grunt
2 N
2 Rough Seas
2 Professor Sycamore
1 Wally

Energy (8)
8 Water energy


Would this be worse? I need thoughts on this, I thought to add a different approach to it, to have Palkia as the attacker and also support, as it provides 1 energy to a benched pokemon everytime I attack, and after powering up the second attack, I can add even more damage to benched pokemon
 
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