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Standard Rapid Kisses 2016/17(Genesect EX/Togekiss)

Arizaiaz

Arizaiaz

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Rapid Kisses (2016/17 Standard Format)
So I was browsing the latest posts on this site and I came across a thread discussing future potential partners for Genesect EX due to Bronzong rotating soon. A Pokebeach user, Uriel Serjohn M. Casal, suggested Togekiss from ROS and it got me thinking. Paired with Max Elixirs Genesect could be swiming in energies and swinging for major damage fairly quickly. It was an idea that I really liked, especially since I don't want my FA Genesects to be kept in a binder all season, but it may need some tweaking in order to make it at least somewhat viable.

(Updated 8/24/16)
Pokémon: 15
3 Genesect EX FCO
2 Shaymin EX ROS
3 Togepi ROS
3 Togetic ROS
3 Togekiss ROS
1 Cobalion SS

Trainers(Supporters/Items/Stadiums): 34(11/21/2)
4 Professor Sycamore
2 N
2 Wally
2 Lysandre
1 Hex Maniac

4 Ultra Ball
4 Max Elixir
3 VS Seeker
3 Trainers' Mail
2 Float Stone
2 Fighting Fury Belt
2 Energy Recycler
1 Devolution Spray

2 Parallel City

Energy: 11
11 Metal Energy


Strategy:
Togekiss has the Delta Evolution Ancient Trait which means it can be played T1 thanks to Wally. The idea is to hopefully thin out the deck a bit with Shaymins, Acro Bikes, Sycamores, and Ultra balls to lower our chances of whiffing energies. Genesect works well with the included Poke tools and Super Rod puts energies back into the deck. In theory the Max Potion should help with prize denial, especially after using Rapid Blaster's effect. I wasn't sure what to play as the stadium for this deck so I kinda defaulted to what will seemingly be the hot play next format, Parallel City. The new Cobalion from Steam Siege is a non-ex attacker that can also buy me a turn to set up another Genesect/Togekiss.

One of the main things I'm worried about is the energy count. Setting up big KOs, Megas for instance, with Genesect means discarding up to 6 energies (half of them!). So I may need to play another Super Rod or add in a few more energies.

Regardless, I'm curious to hear some opinions and suggestions!
 
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I also play Genesect, and have plenty of Togekiss around to toy with so I'm game to figure this out. 1st thing I want to ask though is why a 3-2-3 line since there are no Rare Candy in the list? I like this idea though so I will start some testing of my own.

As far as the energy crisis, what about Energy Recycler? Shuffles 5 back into the deck, and if you can drop down another Togekiss then you may get some, or all, right back in play. I'd like to see about 1-2 Devolution Spray also, since you could devolve and play it right back down because of the trait and recycle the effect.
 
Good Call! I completely forgot Energy Recycler existed when I was putting together the list, seems like a much better play than the Super Rod. I also really like Devolution Spray since otherwise Togekiss kinda just sits there once its used. This will atleast make the effort/deck space used to get Togekiss in play much more valuable.

Here was the logic behind the 3-2-3 line. The goal is to bench Togekiss on T1 to get the energy flowing but you realistically shouldn't need to play more than 2 in a match (especially true with Devo spray!). So I wanted my chances of getting a Togepi on my opening hand to be high, or at least higher than running a 2-2-2 line. In an ideal world my opening hand would have a Togepi, Wally, and a Togekiss. You don't really want the Togetic to hit your hand and you don't want to run anymore to avoid clogging the deck. Essentially the 3 Togepi/Togekiss are to increase the odds of them being in the opening hand or drawn throughout the T1 setup. That being said, maybe it should be a 4-2-4 line to maximize the odds, not sure about that though since we would be giving up some nice cards to have.

I've obviously never tested the deck yet so maybe that should change. Here's what I'm thinking on changing first based on your suggestions.

-1 Super Rod
-1 Max Potion/Float Stone

+1 Energy Recycle
+1 Devolution Spray

Maybe also drop one of these for an extra Devo spray?
-1 N/VS Seeker/Parallel City?

Deciding on what to drop is getting hard. Genesect really works well with the tools so I'm not sure if I should drop any of those first.
 
So just went through my Genesect deck and converted to this. I was running the exact build from Italian Nationals. I'll try to get a list on here of it with the modifications soon for anyone not familiar or unable to locate it. In the meantime google did a good analysis video of this list that is on youtube for anyone interested that doesn't want to wait on me to get to it.

Modifications to the build were this:
- 4-4-1 Bronzong line
+ 3-3-3 Togekiss line

- 2 AZ
+ 2 Wally

-1 Aegislash EX
-1 Battle Compressor
+2 Energy Recycler

-1 Startling Megaphone
+1 Devolution Spray

This list starts quite a bit different that the one here, but this converted it to be 2017 legal and have the least impact on the original build. It went alright for a first run. Had the first Genesect out and ready with 3 energy and a Fury Belt on the first turn and a second one benched, so initial setup was faster than I could expect with Bronzong since there are games where I don't get the second Bronzong out until T3-ish. Second turn top-decked the Devo Spray and came into 2 more energy. Stalled out on energy for a few turns after that and was just hitting tools on my draws. Mid game was a bit slower because I couldn't get more energy to Genesect so was just hitting for 110 for a few turns. Late game came back around after I was able to burn through more of the deck and recycle some energy. Dropped second Togekiss finally and hit 5 energy with it, not that I needed it at that point because I Lysandred a Shaymin for last KO.

Need to play a few more before condemning anything really but the deck used 2 Skyfield which did nothing for me, so going to swap those out, just havent decided what I like best in place of it yet.
 
I said I would post the list I used for this so here it is.

Pokemon: 15
3 Genesect EX FAC
3 Shaymin EX ROS
3 Togepi ROS
3 Togetic ROS
3 Togekiss ROS

Trainers: 34
4 Prof. Sycamore
2 N
2 Lysandre
2 Wally
1 Hex Maniac

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
3 Max Elixir
3 Float Stone
2 Fighting Fury Belt
1 Assault Vest
2 Energy Recycler
1 Super Rod
1 Devolution Spray

2 Sky Field

Energy: 11
11 Metal


Still not done but this is where I'm at. I tested against Night March yesterday and won 2 out of 3. Only loss was a Shaymin start where I got donked, so that sucked, but can happen to a lot of decks if the cards fall right so I don't feel like that loss is much reflection on this deck in particular. Forgot to change out Sky Field before the match, and it proved useless. Played it twice just to bump Dimension Valley.

Recyclers came in handy, so did Devo Spray. May drop a VS for either another one. Considered making it a 4th Elixir but 1 energy to a benched vs as many as you find to anything. I like the Spray better thanks to the evolution trait. Might drop Elixir altogether in favor of Devo Spray since Togekiss grabs 2 extra cards.

Definitely glad I went 3-3-3 with Togekiss. Tossed a Togetic early for an Ultra Ball in the last game since 2 were in my opening hand. The other one and Togekiss went down T2 as planned. Late game lost the charged Genesect and needed to set up another. Togepi benched, Togekiss in hand, knew Super Rod was still prized, and top-decked a Wally. So glad I went for 3 right there.

Not sure how much you've started testing the list up top, but looking forward to seeing your results. My list is a good bit off from that one. Hope my test results and the alternate build help you out! Love that this seems to be keeping Genesect alive.
 
Does this deck actually work? Togekiss seems terribly inconsistent.

How do you guys feel about Skyla in this deck? It can fetch your one-of trainers and thin your deck out for bigger Serene Graces.
 
I think Skyla would be good for this deck if you added Pokemon Ranger (Jolteon/Regice Counter). I also think that it would be good if you increased the number of devolution spray in this deck and/or added a rare candy.
 
Togekiss can be inconsistant but it's the ability to get out multiple or recycle them that makes it work. Needs a test with higher HP opponents though, Night March doesn't require Genesect to discard anything to KO, even if it has the Fury Belt. So far though 3 of 4 games I've played I've won, and got set up better than when I had Bronzong.
 
I think Togekiss is a good partner for Genesect-EX, and I love the idea. I think you need to try to fit in the space for at least 1 Pokémon Ranger, as a lone Jolteon auto wins against this deck.
 
i played last saturday with my friends and got a 3-2, 1 win with a greninja deck a very decisive one and 2-2 to mega ray though its all close match ups
 
I tested this deck against a couple of my wife's decks, including Greninja. Though I won I feel this deck is far too inconsistent. A change I may consider trying is dropping the 2 Wally for 2 Rare Candy. There were too many times I could have taken advantage of this, and found that Wally was fairly unused given that you can't use Wally to bring out Togekiss because it ruins the ability.
 
There's definitely some tuning needed here. Over half my test games so far have been Shaymin starts, which I know has to just be bad luck more than anything because on paper there's a 1-in-3 chance of that, but I'm at more like 2-out-of-3. Really want a Ninja Boy in here just for that, but without something like Skyla to help get it when you need it I'm not sure what difference it will make. Still need to work that one out.

I dropped Sky Field which wasn't doing anything now that Bronzong is out in favor of Parallel City as the list in OP had. Since reports above say it has a somewhat even matchup with Mega Ray I'm hoping that will swing things a tad more favorably.

Also thinking I'll drop Hex Maniac for Pokemon Ranger now that Trevenant isn't going to be a thing in Standard. I think Ranger will be useful against more matchups than Hex will be.

I have a few reservations about switching out Wally for Rare Candy. With Wally you could potentially get Togekiss out on the first turn because of the evolution trait. The second concern is Devo Spray, if you use Candy for Togekiss you can't devolve and drop it back down right away losing the opportunity to reuse the ability, and doing that really gives this deck power to load Genesect up. Last issue coming to mind is Vileplume. I'm talking about dropping Hex so I don't feel like Vileplume is a massive threat, but if because of Vileplume I can't get Togekiss down then we're sitting ducks. Then even if you do keep Hex, and play it to get a turn of items, then you shut off Togekiss in the process. So without Wally in then Vileplume seems like an auto-loss between Togekiss being near impossible to play, and not being able to hit Carbink because of safeguard. Turns into a bad matchup really fast.
 
Oh shoot, I didn't think about the devo spray not working with RC. I did Hex for Ranger, and I dropped a Syc for Skyla which proved helpful at least.

I wish there was a way to solve the inconsistency because it is one fun deck to play with.

The feeling you get when you Kiss and draw four energy.

Hmm hmm. What about some sort of Ninja Boy - Mew combo. Man that would be killed with Dimension Valley of PHF wasn't out haha.

I got a couple Ninja Boy yesterday, I'll play around.
 
ill show you my list for ideas and for suggestions

Pokémon

genesect ex 3
togekiss 2
togetic 2
togepi 2
shaymin ex 2
blitzle 1
zebstrika 1

trainers

trainers mail 4
vs seeker 4
ultraball 4
energy recycler 2
super rod 2
float stone 2
devolution spray 2
max elixir 4
fighting fury belt 2
parallel city 1
professor sycamore 3
N 2
lysandre 1
delinquent 1

energy

metal energy 12

this is my list though it doesnt have any element on steam siege because i made it before i got my steam siege boosters though i want to add a ninja boy and a pokemon ranger, i put in zebstrika line for a mega ray match up since it has a slight advantage on this deck without zebstrika
 
I've tried this deck this weekend. Well a similar build. It's fun to play. But with the new format, garbodor completely destroys this deck.

Until some sort of tool removal gets reintroduced. Ability based decks will not be viable.

With that said. That I didn't get any real mileage with wally. Almost every time I played it or had it in my hand. I wished it was something else.

In most of the matches, I was only able to get out one genesect at a time. Considering playing a 4th to combat this as well as the common shaymin start.
 
Ivy_Profen said:
I've tried this deck this weekend. Well a similar build. It's fun to play. But with the new format, garbodor completely destroys this deck.

Until some sort of tool removal gets reintroduced. Ability based decks will not be viable.

With that said. That I didn't get any real mileage with wally. Almost every time I played it or had it in my hand. I wished it was something else.

In most of the matches, I was only able to get out one genesect at a time. Considering playing a 4th to combat this as well as the common shaymin start.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. If you know what you're doing, you have a chance at winning with an ability based deck vs. Garbodor. A well-timed Lysandre usually does the trick. I've won a few games (or come really close) with Serperior vs. Garbodor/Hex Maniac. You are right about one thing-ability based decks definitely aren't as vicious as they normally are vs. an average matchup.
 
At least with this deck you don't solely rely on abilities. Togekiss is really here to rush into OHKOs on larger targets and for sustaining pressure after an attacker has fallen. The Max Elixirs by themselves should provide enough speed to remove the Garbodor lock... and then it's party time. It's also why I've started running 2 copies of Lysandre in the deck.
 
What about either finding two stadiums that worked with Genesect EX or putting in two Delinquents.
 
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