Standard Kingdra Ex - Magnezone - Talonflame

[JeroenM]

Sometime ago I tried to built a Kingdra EX deck. But there where to many games I got stuck without N or Sycamore and I couldn't do anything.. (I play without Shaymin EX). So I tried to find a way to make it work. And I think Talonflame could do the thing? What do you think?

Pokémon: 11

• 2 Kingdra EX - FCO
• 2 Magnemite - BKT
• 1 Magneton - BKT
• 2 Magnezone - BKT
• 4 Talonflame - Steam Siege

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 38

• 4 Professor Sycamore
• 3 N
• 1 Lysandre
• 1 Fisherman
• 4 VS Seeker
• 4 Trainers' Mail
• 2 Acro Bike
• 1 Town Map
• 3 Professor's Letter
• 2 Super Rod
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 2 Level Ball
• 2 Float Stone
• 2 Fighting Fury Belt
• 3 Rare Candy

Energy: 11

• 3 Water Energy
• 8 Lightning Energy

Strategy:
Because I only play 2 Kingdra and 2-1-2 Magnezone. There is a 50% chance of a Talonflame start. If it doesn't work out, there are plenty of ways to do the Kingdra / Magnezone set up (level ball, ultra ball, N, Sycamore,..). So most of the time Magnezone and Kingdra are ready to go in turn 3/4 (without Talonflame).

If there is a Talonflame start, I can do the set up really quick, so I can attack with Kingdra in turn 2 (150-180 damage). If the opponent plays N after i used Talonfames ability, It ain't that big deal because in 6 cards, there must be something to use i hope . Red card is another story..

Town Map is in it because the 2th Kingdra, Magnemite or Magnezone could be prized.. So i need a way to get them out.

I use Fighting Fury Belt to power up Kingdra EX health (first I had energy pouch, but I guess Fury Belt is more usefull here). The Float stone is to get Magnezone back after a Lysandre or after i used him to attack an Carbink or another EX-blocker.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

After some testing, I will imagine you might become disillusioned with Talonflame. Dedicating 4 slots to this Pokémon whose attack (vs. Ability) can get you 2 cards does not seem to have a good return on investment, especially given that you are running a fairly "thin" Magnezone line and only 2 Kingdra EX.

You may want to consider incorporating at least 1 Clemont (for -1 Professor's Letter) to initially gather a bunch of Lightning energy you can attach via Magnezone's Ability.

 

[JeroenM]

Thanks for your reaction! There is stuff in there to think about..

First i had Clemont in it, but i replaced it for an extra Professors Letter actually. Because I want Kingdra EX out as quick as possible and ready to attack.. Playing a Suporter like Clemont would be waste of time I guess? Because I would not be able to play sycamore or N to get new/more/other cards.. And Kingdra EX needs a water energy.. I can't get it with Clemont..

Talonflame takes a lot of space indeed.. but it's excellent to throw away with ultra ball? So you can keep other cards in hand..
And okay it are Only 2 cards with it's attack.. But it are THE cards you need to get Magnezone and have Kingdra EX ready for combat..

 

[JayMatt1138]

Talonflame is good as fodder for Ultra Ball, but terrible to draw into when you could use litterally anything besides Talonflame. The drawbacks outweigh the benefits to me. You said yourself you have a 50% chance to start with Talonflame, but then you have to realize you have a 100% chance that at least 3 are useless the moment the game begins.

 

[Gunther Spindler]

Talonflame is good as fodder for Ultra Ball, but terrible to draw into when you could use litterally anything besides Talonflame. The drawbacks outweigh the benefits to me. You said yourself you have a 50% chance to start with Talonflame, but then you have to realize you have a 100% chance that at least 3 are useless the moment the game begins.

Sometimes you have 2 cards of 4 which are prized...And a lot of decks play like 3-4 cards that are not like essential, just for some matchs...

 

[JayMatt1138]

Agreed, but Non-essential is different than unusable though IMO. You also dont have to worry about having them prized if the only way to use it is in place of a starting basic.

 

[JeroenM]

Yeah is true.. Talonflame is 100% garbage if you can't start with it.. But think about it a different way..

I love Kingdra and the Kingdra EX card and say what you want. It's a great attacker. But way to slow without Magnezone's ability.
I played a deck (3-1-3 Magnezone, 2 Raikou, 3 Kingdra, 1 Dedenne and sycamore/n for draw support,...) but only if i was lucky, Kingdra was ready to attack turn 3/4. Sometimes when luck was really on my side, it was turn 2.

Then I saw this Talonflame and tought in myself.. Why not trying it? So i battled around 15 times against different types of decks.. And when I had a Talonflame start.. Kingdra EX and Magnezone lay on the table turn 2.. Didn't win al the matches that started that way.. but okay

If it wasn't a Talonflame start it took me 4/5 turn, sometimes 3.. So it is an improvement I guess?

So is Talonflame worth 4 sport? Well for me it's worth it in this deck.. If someone has another way to get Kingdra EX and Magnezone out there in turn 2 without any Shaymin EX.. let me know!

 

[JayMatt1138]

Point taken but since we have a good discussion going lets continue. I'm still on the other side of the Talonflame issue. You have better games when you start with it, and slower games when you don't. Obviously slow games are easy to get behind on and lose, so we don't want those. You have a 50% chance to hit the Talonflame start, so every time you shuffle up you're basically flipping a coin on whether this has a chance to go well or not. I see how it helps when it works, but I just think there has to be a better way that doesn't leave you with the same uneasy feeling whenever you get ready to draw a new opening hand.

Ninja Boy seems like it would be a good way to make sure you get what you want up front. Whatever you start with could switch into Kingdra. The choke point, Magnezone is what needs focus. To me you should up to at least a 3-1-3 Magnezone line, up to 4 Rare Candy, and get maybe 3 Skyla in somewhere so you can search for a candy or ultra ball, whichever you need more, to get Magnezone out T2. Trainers mail could hit it, but Skyla will hit it, and that can be the difference in a 2nd turn setup. 1st work on getting your pokemon in play on time, then once that's consistent you'll see what you aren't using as frequently and can adjust that to make sure you have the energy to follow through.

Again these are just my thoughts. I really like Kingdra EX too, it has a special place with me. When I originally got out of the game 10 years ago, my last deck was Kingdra EX (the fighting type one from EX Dragon Frontiers) and it's still in tact today from the last tournament I played before coming back just a few months ago. I really would like to see this deck work.

 

[JeroenM]

Thank you for the help and the good discussion

The Kingdra EX decks I made before this idea had a lot of stages.. First of all i had Skyla (and 4 rare candy) in the deck with the same idea you have here.. But the problem is.. Yes it Can help Magnezone (If i can get magnemite T1 wich alone costs 3 cards with ultra ball) out T2.. And if i'm lucky there is already an Kingdra (not by ninja boy cause i can only play 1 trainer each turn, so it would slow everythin down).. But i can't play N or Sycamore after Skyla if i use it (the engine of the deck). So how can i get those precious energy's Kingdra need? And then we are one or two turn further again.. So i learned Skyla was way to slow to bring more speed in a deck..

But let say Skyla could do the trick for a second.. How many would you include? 4? To make sure we have it in the start? That would make 3/4 syca, 3 n, 1 fisherman and 1 lysandre.. Maybe to many supporters for this kind of deck?

Then i searched for cards that could do the trick before i thought of Talonflame.. (that's why i play 4 trainers mail, 2 acro bike And 3 Professors letter).. but every game there were one or two cards missing to do the magnezone trick. Or draw support.. Or ultra ball.. or Rare candy,.. And i didn't find a way to get All the cards in those 2 turns.. The only way friends said was include Shaymin EX.. But cant afford it

The fact i only play 2 Kingdra EX and Only 2-1-2 Magnezone is something i don't really like to.. But i had to do it because of de 50% chance for Talonflame.. And it's the reason i play 2 super rod.. Thinking to ad even one more actually.

Again, thanks for trying to help me and Kingdra haha

 

[JayMatt1138]

In theory Skyla is really a last resort, a precise way to get the missing piece, if you can't via something like a Trainers mail, to get Magnezone out. When I came back to the game, right as Fates Collide came out, I tried Delphox Break. Ultimately it was too slow and clunky and I moved on. That's essentially a stage 3 though so no matter what way you spin it you cant set up T1, period. A T2 setup is a minor miracle if you candy into Delphox then Wally to the Break. T3 was a pretty safe bet, and with the FC Delphox it worked out well enough because by T3 there are grnerally 5-6 energy in play without acceleration, even more with Blacksmith and Flare Witch, maybe some Max Elixir, and that's just your side. Point is I understand clunky setups.

Anyway, back to Kingdra. What do we need to start the game with, or how can we have the best chance to get it...
Kingdra id probably easiest, ideally there would be 4, making it likely to open with. The fact that it has a 1 energy attack, although not the best, does help because it can at least do something if you go second. 20 extra damage could be the difference in a KO the next turn, never know. But lets say we don't and you have a Magnemite start. 1 energy for possible paralysis isn't great but could be worse. Not sure which you're using though but homestly likeing the ability version better. Magnemite start, if you have a second, or level ball, or maybe Brigette (jury still out on if that's worth it) then you get free retreat. Got an Ultra Ball, or Brigette (really hate the idea of burning the supporter to search 1EX out though) then you can grab Kingdra. That's about as far as T1 can go, get Kingdra out and get it an energy, get Magnemite(s) benched.

T2 gets tricky. We need the Candy, a Magnezone, and a bunch of energy (one of which needs to be water). You probably have 1-2 handy, if not you have the Letters. If not more Mail. (If I had a nickel for ever time I would have liked to say Shaymin up to this point...) This is where Skyla could gelp, you could easily have 2 of the 3 things you need here (Candy, Magnozone, Energy) and miss getting the third if there's just Trainers Mail. If you only have 1 of those, or none, Sycamore all the way at this point for this turns supporter. If you get a coule Energy and/or Professors Letter and a Magnozone though and have to have that Rare Candy, Mail may not get it, but if Mail needs to find a Rare Candy OR a Skyla, the odds got a lot better.

The last thing that really jumps out here as a concern is 3 water energy, and the part where that is so vital to make this function at all. I'm almost thinking Smeargle wouldn't be a terrible idea here since he could switch out a lightning for the water if it winds up discarded early, or if a second Kingdra comes up you can switch out a lightning for the water from the one that was KO'd. If so I'd say 1, maybe 2, since it's not vital but could make things more convenient. Searchable by Level Ball, and Brigette (since we don't really need 3 Magnemite anyway) so food for thought there.

That's enough for this chapter though. Hope we can keep this working, have a couple Kingdra in the trade binder that may wind up coming out soon.

 

[Draaka]

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

Pokémon - 13

2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
3 Kingdra-EX FAC 73
3 Magnemite BKT 51
1 Magneton BKT 53
3 Magnezone BKT 54
1 Glaceon-EX FAC 116

Trainer Cards - 36

1 Skyla BCR 134
4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
1 Energy Reset FAC 98
2 Lysandre AOR 78
1 Clemont GEN 59
4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
1 Fisherman BKT 136
2 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
1 Professor's Letter XY 123
3 Energy Pouch FAC 97
1 N FAC 105
3 Rare Candy PLB 85
3 Professor Sycamore XY 122
4 VS Seeker PHF 109
1 AZ PHF 91

Energy - 11

3 Water Energy BLW 107
8 Lightning Energy XY 135

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

This is a Kingdra deck that I made and works quite well. The IRL version plays a Jolteon EX, but I can't get one online. Energy pouch are vital in this deck, clemont is vital too, maybe not for setting up the first kingdra, but the second and third if they knock off an energy pouch.