Discussion "Hail King Garb": What Garbodor Means Next Season

[21times]

Well Crystal you may be right about Garbodor - time will tell - but I doubt that you'd find anyone who would say that all of those Pokemon suck. Lysandre is a supporter, and it isn't always available whenever we want it. Plus, while you're Lysandring Garbodor, obviously, you're opponent will be working on your major Pokemon, and they'll be at least somewhat compromised because Garbodor is in effect. Plus Garbodor has 100 HP which is not always OHKOable, and if he has a float stone on him (my tool of choice for Garby), then you might just have to Lysandre him again. I think that Lysandre is the best option to deal with Garbodor, but I don't think it's going to be as simple as "just Lysandre it out."

And I am actually starting to lean towards Vileplume being very powerful as well. I'm just giving Garby the edge because you can build a deck with Pokemon with no abilities; you can't build a deck without item cards.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Well Crystal you may be right about Garbodor - time will tell - but I doubt that you'd find anyone who would say that all of those Pokemon suck. Lysandre is a supporter, and it isn't always available whenever we want it. Plus, while you're Lysandring Garbodor, obviously, you're opponent will be working on your major Pokemon, and they'll be at least somewhat compromised because Garbodor is in effect. Plus Garbodor has 100 HP which is not always OHKOable, and if he has a float stone on him (my tool of choice for Garby), then you might just have to Lysandre him again. I think that Lysandre is the best option to deal with Garbodor, but I don't think it's going to be as simple as "just Lysandre it out."

And I am actually starting to lean towards Vileplume being very powerful as well. I'm just giving Garby the edge because you can build a deck with Pokemon with no abilities; you can't build a deck without item cards.

Oh, I know. I was just joking with what I said. You should read the rest of this thread if you haven't.

 

[Javi Blizz]

You have to remember, those Pokemon all suck and the player is just bad for using them without a way to counter. Garbodor isn't that bad. Just Lysandre it out and KO it while I'm hitting your attacker before you can hit mine back.

Well, if you were trying to be ironic due to what other people said in this thread, that wasn't the better post to do it. It's not the same a splashable or powerfull ability as Set Up, Scoundel Ring, Irritating Pollen or Stand In than something which is much more specific and less relyable, such as Serene Grace or Purifying Fire.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Well, if you were trying to be ironic due to what other people said in this thread, that wasn't the better post to do it. It's not the same a splashable or powerfull ability as Set Up, Scoundel Ring, Irritating Pollen or Stand In than something which is much more specific and less relyable, such as Serene Grace or Purifying Fire.

See, the first few abilities you listed aren't the only good ones. Those 50ish abilities listed are competitive. The abilities to dump energy in a single turn has always been good and while Purifying Fire is a bit harder to use for less creative people, my Ho-Oh EX deck makes good use of it since I can cycle attackers and healing that 50 HP each turn does add up. The thing people seem to not care about is Garbodor in the next format removes ALL of these abilities from the game, meaning if you want to win, you simply can't play anything BUT Setup and or Scoundrel Ring abilities AND have to hope you go first so your opponent doesn't put on a turn one ability lock so it looks like we will have yet another lock format. Play Garbodor or Vileplume with big basics.

 

[SpoonLarry]

I swear people just love to cry about stuff, Garbodor this Garbodor that, I'm gonna make a list of pokemon that Garbodor effects even when more than half of them would never see competitive play even if Garbo wasn't a thing, so I'm just gonna keep pulling things out of my ass instead of trying to enjoy what this new rotation has to offer, because it has a lot to offer. It's so easy to see that while yes Garbo is strong without tool removal, he is not going to effect things in an unhealthy way. He is perfectly balanced going forward into the new rotation with or without tool removal, why? because there are not many decks that rely on abilities so much that its an auto loss on sight. Dunno why I have to keep saying this but if you people wanna keep bringing up bad cards that Garbo effects lets look at cards that are a dominating force in the current rotation.

NM - doesn't use abilities other than shaymin-EX, sets up in one turn very consistently.
Trev - Item lock, EFFECTS EVERY DECK! not just the cards people keep pulling out of their ass, and Items are generally far stronger than abilities, far easier to use, and splash-able in every deck.
Vespiplume - similar consistency to nm, has item lock but is also its biggest weakness, can auto lose to Lysandre if floatstone is not present.
Water tool box - Slower control deck that also has a form of item lock, and many other utilities most of which are NOT abilities.
Fighting decks - Very powerful archetype supporter cards in many forms (energy, stadium, tool, supporter), grass weakness hurts the deck a lot, and even with all its support is not as fast as other decks, oh also doesn't rely on abilities.
Dark decks - Very cost effective attacks with plenty of variety of attackers, lots of utility not in the form of abilities.
Garitina - Another controlish deck that also does not rely on abilities, lots of variants that borrow cards from other archetypes namely dark. Probably the only competitive deck currently that even considers the use of Garbodor.
Manteric - Very cost effective attacks, free retreat with built in energy accelerator with plenty of splash able support from other archetypes. Does NOT rely on abilities.
I can name some more but I think you get the point. Notice how none of these decks get crippled by ability lock and ability lock isn't even a threat in the current rotation.

Now lets talk about the GOOD decks that do rely heavily on abilities.

Greninja
Alakazam
THATS IT!
Flareon is meh and there are bigger problems for fire than Garbodor

Lets take a look at some options that will now be playable competitively.

M Mewtwo, M Ray, Groudon, Raichu, Xerneas Break and Rainbow road Xern, Water Box Ho-Oh/other water decks, water is very splash able , Sceptile... and more and more as we explore our options and get new cards.

Now for the few abilities of GOOD cards you people mention like Aqua Tube Manaphy, Fright Night Yveltal, Stand In Zoroark, Purifying Fire Ho-Oh, Poisonous Nest Ariados, safeguard carbink... and many more. None of these abilities are essential to the decks that use them to function, so stop pulling cards out of your ass to try and strengthen your defense cause those are all invalid to your argument that Garbodor is too strong and makes too many things unplayable, because its simply just not the case.