They have yet to print a basic psychic attacker that can Ohko shaymins in standard for two psychic energy like psydrive mewtwo ex in expanded. You really don't want a partner for trevenant unless it can close the game by doing so.
Trevenant BREAK
- Thread starter Asclepius24
- Start date
Mega Alakazam can do it after one Silent Fear from Trevenant Break.
No, it can't. They keep healing with a constant flow of sky returns. Damage doesn't stay on the board.
I've literally never seen anyone use Sky Return in the meta down here. Everyone is too worried about being aggressive. If anything, they will AZ but that's about it.
One of the biggest ways Night March decks tend to outdo Trevenant is to stall using two Shaymin and continuously Sky Return between them, which dwindles your HP down whilst preventing them from getting KO'd back since they keep picking the damage up off the board. Bursting Balloon doesn't help here either, because the Shaymin returns to the hand before the end of the attack. It's a pretty big problem for Trev, one that Mewtwo NXD solves in Expanded by Psydriving for the OHKO.
Alakazam doesn't solve this problem at all because the Shaymin will never have any damage on them, as the opponent aims to only have one Shaymin out at any given time. It also doesn't do enough damage by itself when Mega Evolving to get a OHKO (misses by 20), so it's honestly pretty irrelevant against the deck. Short of finding something that can OHKO a Shaymin for 1-2 energy in this deck, the only real ways I can see Trev in Standard combating this is lots of N usage, Head Ringer, or potentially the BKP Trev (but then you have no Item Lock). I'm sure there are other things, but I can't think of them right now
Alakazam doesn't solve this problem at all because the Shaymin will never have any damage on them, as the opponent aims to only have one Shaymin out at any given time. It also doesn't do enough damage by itself when Mega Evolving to get a OHKO (misses by 20), so it's honestly pretty irrelevant against the deck. Short of finding something that can OHKO a Shaymin for 1-2 energy in this deck, the only real ways I can see Trev in Standard combating this is lots of N usage, Head Ringer, or potentially the BKP Trev (but then you have no Item Lock). I'm sure there are other things, but I can't think of them right now
I have been playing Trevenant since the release of Phantom Forces, with Gengar ex first, alone post virbank rotation, till now with Ballons/Wobbu and I think that Mega Alakazam solves all the struggles this deck had in his previous versions.
Here are my arguments:
Also, Shaymin loop can easily be negated with N and if you face against NM you simply doesn't play Alakazam unless you have started with it.
Other cards to have in consideration now? Az and Max potion, forget about the ballons, ringers, xerosic and hammers, with the Zen Master we can win without that.
Here are my arguments:
- Mega Alakazam serves as a heavy hitter with a reliable HP that can secure you, almost against every deck, two OHKOs after promoting it, including Dark decks and Mega Manectric decks, two archetypes that have been direct counters to Trevenant Break sucess in standard.
- Alakazam ex serves as last option/end gamer with his attack alone.
- Alakazam ex ability is also a good booster of your damage output even if you don't promote the Mega in all the game.
- Both ex pokemon gives you the momentum to evolve your phantums against agressive decks that can OHKO your Trevs every single turn, also allowing you to attack in the process.
- Alakazam Ex doesn't clash with your Shaymin setup when you get it active unlike Wobbuffet does, that improves considerably your chances to get T1 Wally, and that in my opinion is a really big point.
Also, Shaymin loop can easily be negated with N and if you face against NM you simply doesn't play Alakazam unless you have started with it.
Other cards to have in consideration now? Az and Max potion, forget about the ballons, ringers, xerosic and hammers, with the Zen Master we can win without that.
Yeah, it's the same case with me. But IMO, it's the right play. As for Altaria, I believe you're right. If Trevenant numbers get out of hand, Altaria could become sort of an anti-meta deck, while also having a neutral matchup with most other decks. I also see it having potential to beat Seismitoad/ Giratina, as well as NM.
I know, I just thought I'd mention my thoughts on it. I was talking about the competitive aspect of play Kazam, and my thoughts on why I think it would slow Trev down. I haven't tested it myslef, but I WILL try online.
I've been testing the variant with mega alakazam and to me it works well, yes it does take a way the count of certain cards (head ringer , burst balloon,etc.) but It def does help when used right to get quicker k.os, the con I can agree with is not having item lock first turn or second because it's active but I run 2 float stone and mystery energy so shouldn't be a problem switching out , I def need to continue to test as I haven't played night March or greninja and few other mets decks and if worst a come to worst a you can always just switch back to a straight trevenant deck
Trevenant from BKP singlehandedly won me all my night march match ups at a recent LC. If I wasn't able to lock them T1 I would just bring the BKP one out and give them a hard time since I would kill the joltiks and mews that were on the bench. So he for sure is worth a spot with all the march going around and the lack of easy T1 Wallys without Jirachi-EX.
You still try for the item lock but if you don't get it and they pop off 6-8 marchers it's time for nervous seed.
You still try for the item lock but if you don't get it and they pop off 6-8 marchers it's time for nervous seed.
I completely agree with Chochiflex. 1 BKP Trevenant is definitely worth a spot for the unfortunate occasions when you can't get item-lock Trev out early.
That's a pretty tough one. Trevenant may be able to put up item lock faster, but Toad has that healing with Rough Seas happening and item lock as well. Trev runs more Dimension Valleys, though, so it's more likely to win the Stadium war, but when Toad has it on item lock, Trev can't chip away at HP as quickly with Bursting Balloon.
If I had to pick a favorite, I would say that Toad holds a modest advantage due to having more draw supporters and widespread healing via Rough Seas. Toad may have a smaller Stadium count, but Trev lacks too much in the non-item based draw Supporter count to really take full advantage. If the Toad deck relies more on Max Elixer for acceleration, however, that can swing things into Trev's favor for the match-up.
Which Toad deck variant?
Based upon my experience (I run both Trevenant-Wobbuffet and Trevenant-Gengar decks), Trevenant would have an advantage due to its Silent Fear and Tree Slam attacks (which can inflict damage onto multiple opponent's Pokémon). Trev's output damage (Tree Slam) exceeds Toad's Quaking Punch too. Plus, Dimension Valley gives Trev an edge too.
That's literally how decks beat Trevenant if they can't get any offense going.
I have done it before, it buys time by keeping the damage lower. Because shuffle cards exist, it is hard to keep the cycle going indefinitely without streamlining dce and shaymin after a shuffle. I kept one going long enough to take two trevenant break once with sky returns alone.
It doesn't work in standard but if they can't get out N they just... lose.
I run Wobbuffet (Bide Barricade) in my deck. Other viable choices I've used include M Alkazam EX and Gengar EX.
@prophecy250 I noticed you did not play against any Dark decks at the NJ States. Was that a gamble you chose to take or are Dark decks not popular there? Thanks.
Attach bursting balloon, Tree slam, good night Shaymin
Sky Return puts Shaymin back in the hand before you check for Knock Outs. Shaymin can eat a Bursting Balloon, go up to 120, and then it all goes away. Shaymin looping is a problem for Trevenant.
@TuxedoBlack There were some dark decks, but i lucked out and didnt get matched against any of them. I think most players (me included), predicted night march being the most popular deck, so i think that scared away most dark decks.