Discussion Dual-Type Pokemon

poke4trade

poke4trade

Raising Ash
Member
Is anybody anxious to play duel type Pokemon? With so many things already happening on the competitive scene, I must admit dual type pokemon will bring in some more dimension. I'm sort of excited to see these play out. What I can't wait for is some dual type baby basics where it gives added strength to hit for weakness on the pokemon.

I think this might make that fight spirit belt not as useful, if the chances of hitting for weakness in a game increases in a tournament. I'm also thinking this really hurts the Mega Game.

Thoughts?
 
i'm actually really hyped about the new dual types, could very easily bring life to lower teir decks such as fairies. though i gotta say the card i'm most hyped about atm is volcanion ex. as for fight fury belt, i think it will still see alot of play in decks, night march especially, as they need it just to stay alive as is.
 
I think they should make a Stunfisk. Fighting/electric. Hits Yveltal for weak as well as can have strong energies.
 
I'm super hype for Volcanion EX. There are so many applications to this card.

  • It boosts the power of Basic Fire Pokemon. Just 1 Steam Up can make a Charizard EX hit for a clean 180, while also sending Fire Energy to the discard pile for various purposes. Such as creating fodder for Blacksmith to charge up said Charizard.
  • Has amazing synergy with the mini Volcanion also in the set. Use Steam Up to discard Fire Energy (at least 2), then use the Power Heater attack to accelerate Energy to your Bench. It could almost replace Blacksmith as an accelerator. And since Power Heater is a damaging attack, for 1 Energy mind you, it benefits from Steam Up and allows you to apply some early game pressure while also setting up your Bench. Not to mention it is fairly tanky with 130 hp.
  • It benefits not only from Fire support, but Water support as well. It is searchable with Dive Ball, can be healed by Rough Seas, etc. It also makes for a good Counter to other Fire decks with it's Water typing, as well as an interesting mirror match.
  • Fighting Fury Belt is a prime tool to use in a Volcanion deck. It will not only have power but survivability. Mini Volcanion goes from 130 to 170 putting it at EX level hp as well as giving it an extra bit of power, and letting it live just a bit longer for more setup.
  • A 1-off Manaphy EX and a few Water Energy means you're able to retreat your heavy steam machines for free. And since Volcanion-EX's Volcanic Heat attack says it can't attack next turn, retreating into another steam machine or Charizard is optimal to maintain constant damage output.
I'm probably missing some things but seriously, the potential is there, and I am in love with Volcanion now. I needs to play it. I needs it!!
 
Would be amusing if there was a Pokemon weak to type A and had resistance to type B, and went up a against an A & B duel type Pokemon
 
I just started building and testing Rainbow Road Xerneas, so I'm pretty happy this is happening.

Volcanion's gonna be nice for that.
 
I think its a cool concept multiple types means more chances to hit for weakness but so far we have pretty bad attackers that are dual type. One thing about Dual types is that they can use support from other types (Dive ball for Volcanion) the problem is that dive ball would only be for Volcanion EX which makes it not a good choice for deck builds as you need fire energy and types to make Volcanion good. What we need is a dual type that can use the support of both types as well as the rest of the deck. Otherwise using multiple type support in a deck with only one Pokemon that benefits from it is not practical for competitive play. Hopefully in the future we will get some competitive Dual types that will have a positive affect on the meta. cross your fingers for Houndoom Dark/Fire the ultimate anti-item lock deck pokemon (toad excluded)
 
@Ms Hugo -- Totally on board with Rainbow road when dual type comes out. Pst...I got a set four halo's the other day. I do think NM could get stronger in the next set but, I also think baby dual's might balance the card exchange if they hit for weakness.

I was watching the new XY movie the other day and Hoopa comes out and gives Ash Ray Ray EX, Latios EX, and Latias EX, and my son said, "Man I'd be so mad at Hoopa, he better give me joltik, pukaboo, and vespiqeen." I chuckled a bit.
 
AuraJackle said:
I think its a cool concept multiple types means more chances to hit for weakness but so far we have pretty bad attackers that are dual type. One thing about Dual types is that they can use support from other types (Dive ball for Volcanion) the problem is that dive ball would only be for Volcanion EX which makes it not a good choice for deck builds as you need fire energy and types to make Volcanion good. What we need is a dual type that can use the support of both types as well as the rest of the deck. Otherwise using multiple type support in a deck with only one Pokemon that benefits from it is not practical for competitive play. Hopefully in the future we will get some competitive Dual types that will have a positive affect on the meta. cross your fingers for Houndoom Dark/Fire the ultimate anti-item lock deck pokemon (toad excluded)
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Well, you can run M Gardevoir EX with Dimension Valley (it attacks using [Y] energy), adding some basics like Lugia FC, and add Mew FC. That way, you're using [Y] energy and the [P] support. But really, I think this is the only dual type pokemon that really benefits both supports.
 
Javi Blizz said:
Well, you can run M Gardevoir EX with Dimension Valley (it attacks using [Y] energy), adding some basics like Lugia FC, and add Mew FC. That way, you're using [Y] energy and the [P] support. But really, I think this is the only dual type pokemon that really benefits both supports.
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Yes but Mega Gardevior is not good enough for the Mega Price Tag. What we need are good Dual types that can effectivly use both type supports and make a impact on the meta
 
It's a bit of a Catch 22. You want dual types that benefit from both typing supports, so that they have a presence in the metagame and so that you would run them instead of the monotype version or some other similar monotype equivalent. BUT, you also don't want them to be so overpowering that suddenly there are only 4 or so decks that are viable - each being one of the newly introduced dual types. The dual types are fun, but monotypes shouldn't suddenly be left in the dust.
 
AuraJackle said:
Yes but Mega Gardevior is not good enough for the Mega Price Tag. What we need are good Dual types that can effectivly use both type supports and make a impact on the meta
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That remains to be seen. I am certainly far less excited about it now than at first glance, but its prospects are better than at second glance. XD

If we get Karen, decks built around this new M Gardevoir can basically focus on Hoopa-EX, Shaymin-EX, and Unown to fill its Bench each turn before attempting a OHKO. If the opponent doesn't score a OHKO back, you Max Potion, attach another [Y] Energy and try again. Sky Bridge and Mega Turbo give you the option of going for bigger hits as well, plus you avoid the risk the first approach has. Just enough there that I will remain cautiously optimistic about the card.

Otherwise we get to the point @Turtleatlaw made; being Dual Types should be a benefit (otherwise why do it?) and so to keep things even, that means these cards shouldn't be quite as powerful as their mono Type counterparts. We also never know when the-powers-that-be will realize we are badly overdue for a "power crunch" to compensate for the "power creep" in the game (short version: current pace is so fast that core game rules stop working well). We have seen a few of these Dual Types already that look good: Volcanion-EX and... okay, so that is the only one. Still, that is par for the course; only 10-20% of the card pool makes up the competitive metagame (yes that is guess, not a hard estimate). Just having a few of the Dual Types look like they might work specifically because of their Dual Type nature allowing better combos is good enough for me, at least for now. I'd rather Dual Types became the norm, personally.
 
Volcanion certainly creates an interesting mirror match its not as easily thrown into any deck as mewtwo but I'm sure we'll see some hyped revenge kills with volcanion on volcanion.
I'm not sure most people are aware that the dual type doesn't directly increase your deck variety, if you are running a fire build sure running diveball would be funny for the free searchable Volcanion but ultraball into hoopa -> volcanion, volcanion shaymin is still the stronger play. why would I give up my ultraball for a diveball then?
instead you should be aware that anything yellow or blue facing volcanion now will be LIMITED in their options against dual types
putting down rough seas allows Volcanion to heal.
a Trevs D-Valley will allow Mgarde to attack despite being locked out of megaturbo while also removing the damaged pokemon from the bench
now I'm not saying that MGarde is good or will hurt trev severely but running both Dvalley AND Fgarden seems a bit clunky in my eyes
If Msteelix would actually be playable you wouldn't play it with maxies in a metal build, instead you'd profit from the dark users reverse valley-stadium giving it an effective 250 hp.

Me myself I'm still trying to come up with a way to make a dual type galvantula shrine of memories NM work so I can hit toads and ninjas for super effective damage,
in return this would degrade pumpkaboo into a discard fodder instead of a high hp attacker due to Dvalley missing, mews can still hit with purple damage despite no dvalley being present by copying the joltiks NM attack over pumkaboos. It probably won't go beyond a gimmicky NM list but at least its creative..

I'm excited to see what dual types they'll print in the future
these seem pretty vanilla to me so far, imagine if they did something funky like Colorless/fighting MLopunny that suddenly turns winona into a massive supporter.
Or a dragon/grass MSceptile that allows the usage of both DDE and forest for very fast setups
A new keldeo that could use focus sash and rough seas healing... we have plenty of opportunities and we have yet to see more than eight of the new generation pokemon
 
With Dual Types, it really will depend on the exact Type combination. The following should be pretty obvious but you never know when you've got a novice reading a thread, or someone experienced that just had a brain fart. XP

With mono Types you already need to consider:
  • How often you will encounter Types Weak to them.
  • How often you will encounter Types Resistant to them.
  • How often you you run into counters for that Type.
  • What support is available for that Type.
Counters and support include both the explicit that only work for a particular Type and those that aren't as restrictive; maybe they work for multiple Types like Rough Seas, or are focused on the Energy Type like the original Darkrai-EX and so can be used with many other Pokémon Types, or simply have something that allows them to work better with a particular Type but not be limited to it, like Keldeo-EX. Just being in a deck with other solid, on-Type attackers can be a surprising benefit! Counters are similar; most of the counters that get some bonus against a specific Type are quite poor but if a Type typically has a common Weakness, pretty easy to counter it just with the right splashed in attacker.

Anyway, all of that applies with Dual Typed Pokémon as well, except you double it all up. Weakness is a very, very strong mechanic; hitting a larger pool of targets for double damage is already impressive. Mix and matching Type support could be impractical or the key to victory.
 
Otaku said:
Mix and matching Type support could be impractical or the key to victory.
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Dragon/Fighting Garchomp/Flygon/Tyrantrum/Zygarde w/ Double Dragon and Strong Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, and Regirock EX.
Dragon/Psychic Lati@s/Giratina/Dragalge w/ Double Dragon and Mystery Energies and Dimension Valley.
Psychic/Fighting Medicham/Gallade/Toxicroak/Golurk/Claydol/Solrock/Lunatone/Nidoking/Nidoqueen w/ Strong and Mystery Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, and Dimension Valley.
Fire/Fighting Infernape/Blaziken/Emboar/Magcargo/Camerupt w/ Burning and Strong Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, Blacksmith, and Scorched Earth.
Water/Fighting Omastar/Kabutops/Carracosta/Poliwrath/Keldeo/Quagsire/Corsola/Swampert/Whiscash/Relicanth/Gastrodon/Barbaracle/Seismitoad w/ Strong and Splash Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, Aurorus EX, Archie, Dive Ball, and Rough Seas.

And that's just scratching the surface. If done right, there's a lot of potential.
 
Otaku said:
Mix and matching Type support could be impractical or the key to victory.
Click to expand...

MystikX said:
Dragon/Fighting Garchomp/Flygon/Tyrantrum/Zygarde w/ Double Dragon and Strong Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, and Regirock EX.
Dragon/Psychic Lati@s/Giratina/Dragalge w/ Double Dragon and Mystery Energies and Dimension Valley.
Psychic/Fighting Medicham/Gallade/Toxicroak/Golurk/Claydol/Solrock/Lunatone/Nidoking/Nidoqueen w/ Strong and Mystery Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, and Dimension Valley.
Fire/Fighting Infernape/Blaziken/Emboar/Magcargo/Camerupt w/ Burning and Strong Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, Blacksmith, and Scorched Earth.
Water/Fighting Omastar/Kabutops/Carracosta/Poliwrath/Keldeo/Quagsire/Corsola/Swampert/Whiscash/Relicanth/Gastrodon/Barbaracle/Seismitoad w/ Strong and Splash Energies, Focus Sash, Korrina, Maxie, Fighting Stadium, Carbink BREAK, Regirock EX, Aurorus EX, Archie, Dive Ball, and Rough Seas.

And that's just scratching the surface. If done right, there's a lot of potential.
Click to expand...

Quoted myself with added emphasis; like I said sometimes it will be impractical and sometimes it will be the key to victory. I can't tell if you are disagreeing with the first half of my point or merely expanding upon the second. Listing all that out brings us to the next point though:

Will your deck have room for all these cards in meaningful amounts?

Not everything you listed is a staple, and even where it is, when you mix two Types together you still only have so many slots for all the support. Just to give you an idea, in a deck built around Greninja BREAK the card Dive Ball shines. Yet it isn't a staple for all Water Type decks. Why? Some decks need to discard so they can set up for Archie's Ace in the Hole. Others run at least one significant off-Type card they wish to search, namely Shaymin-EX (ROS). Focus Sash and its importance has varied since its release. Right now we are at a point where OHKOs are getting more likely and where we have enough other damage buffs that Focus Sash or (for Basics) Fighting Fury Belt make a lot of sense. If we get to the point where true OHKOs become less likely, Focus Sash will become niche once again. We have been at a point where Fighting Stadium has gone from being a must for Fighting Type decks to a loose staple, with some players making solid arguments that one is better off splitting it with something else and/or replacing it with Magnetic Storm to deal with Resistance.
 
rainyman123 said:
I think they should make a Stunfisk. Fighting/electric. Hits Yveltal for weak as well as can have strong energies.
Click to expand...
Seriously! Even if it's a reprint with Muddy Water I'm okay with it! (Though that would be bad) I also hope we get a Dual-Type Magcargo or Tentacruel. Oh especially Venusaur. And Mega Diance. I think a good old Regirock EX boost would help a lot and especially having free retreat.
 
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