I think the reason people haven't gone in that direction is Houndoom's low damage output. Sure, it can still KO Night March and Vespas, but doing 5o damage for 2 while setting up a bench against harder-hitting EX's doesn't win games. Getting one single energy while giving up 2 prizes isn't a favorable trade when you could be cleaning house with heavy moves instead, especially when you have plenty of other fire-type options to Blacksmith energy on to. After all, the main things that make Landorus playable as a low-damage-energy-setter are the facts that it only gives up one prize and has access to Strong Energy+Fighting Stadium (making 20 damage into 60) and Focus Sash making an easy OHKO into a 2 hit for single prize trade. Then doing all of that for a single energy instead of Houndoom's two. Houndoom's support is just geared towards getting better big-hitting attacks.
Discussion The Blazing Hellhound - (M) Houndoom EX Discussion
- Thread starter Asmer
- Start date
In expanded, because of all the intricate tactics yveltal is what I feel the best deck out there. It shows in the consistent competitive winnings. And with the new Jeriachi - promo card, the deck has received a boost. Without an energy acceleration pokemon being placed in the fighting decks, the fighting deck gets a strong monkey wrench thrown at it with Jeriachi - promo. With only 5 basic energies to rely on, because of the 4 strong energies that are played in the deck, and no energy acceleration from a pokemon the deck becomes tough to play. And if the deck uses the energy acceleration pokemon, baby lando, it forgoes bats, or speed item cards. Because the dark decks can us yveltal + dark patch it can be used to accelerate energy without over complicating the deck, I feel that would be a better play.
@Asmer On another point, I tried it last night with Enetie from AO and it worked well. Because Enetie is a two charge the opponent kept laying pokemon on the bench. Because I was using sky field, I was encouraging him to do so. But with the quick energy acceleration, between Houndoom and Blacksmith, by round two I had two pokemon fully charged and working on another. I usually go mega but I opted to go Standard Enetie. Though I hadn't thunk of the energy acceleration attack on Houndoom until you mentioned it. Thanks for the easy win.
I figured it would be good for SOMETHING lol, but I really wasn't sure what. @neophenx Also, I had considered that Landorus/Yveltal were one Energy Attackers, but that doesn't stop us from testing it anyway. 
That's actually an issue I have with most communities... everyone likes to play Theorymons, but then refuses to test any of it if it doesn't sound perfect. We have an online simulator, so there really is no excuse for that kind of mentality nor behavior imho. xP
That's actually an issue I have with most communities... everyone likes to play Theorymons, but then refuses to test any of it if it doesn't sound perfect. We have an online simulator, so there really is no excuse for that kind of mentality nor behavior imho. xP
Making my triumphant return to this thread
Won a cities with houndoom mill. I would have to say most people felt angry when I beat them. 4-1 top 8, won from there. PM me for a report. Here was my list:
Won a cities with houndoom mill. I would have to say most people felt angry when I beat them. 4-1 top 8, won from there. PM me for a report. Here was my list:
4 Houndoom-EX (BKT 21)
2 Bunnelby (PCL 121)
1 Shaymin-EX (ROS 106)
6 Fire Energy (XY 133)
2 Enhanced Hammer (PCL 162)
2 Head Ringer (PHF 97)
3 Ultra Ball (ROS 93)
2 Red Card (XY 124)
3 Shauna (PHF 104)
2 Pokémon Fan Club (FLF 106)
1 Super Rod (BKT 149)
1 Professor Birch's Observations (PCL 159)
3 Assault Vest (BKT 133)
4 Team Flare Grunt (XY 129)
2 Trick Shovel (FLF 98)
3 Trainers' Mail (AOR 100)
3 VS Seeker (ROS 110)
3 Super Scoop Up (FUF 100)
2 Lysandre (FLF 104)
1 Professor's Letter (BKT 146)
4 Crushing Hammer (KSS 34)
3 Team Aqua's Secret Base (DCR 28)
2 Professor Sycamore (PHF 101)
1 Xerosic (PHF 119)
2 Bunnelby (PCL 121)
1 Shaymin-EX (ROS 106)
6 Fire Energy (XY 133)
2 Enhanced Hammer (PCL 162)
2 Head Ringer (PHF 97)
3 Ultra Ball (ROS 93)
2 Red Card (XY 124)
3 Shauna (PHF 104)
2 Pokémon Fan Club (FLF 106)
1 Super Rod (BKT 149)
1 Professor Birch's Observations (PCL 159)
3 Assault Vest (BKT 133)
4 Team Flare Grunt (XY 129)
2 Trick Shovel (FLF 98)
3 Trainers' Mail (AOR 100)
3 VS Seeker (ROS 110)
3 Super Scoop Up (FUF 100)
2 Lysandre (FLF 104)
1 Professor's Letter (BKT 146)
4 Crushing Hammer (KSS 34)
3 Team Aqua's Secret Base (DCR 28)
2 Professor Sycamore (PHF 101)
1 Xerosic (PHF 119)
Congrats Socery! AWESOME! I saw this deck played with crawdaunt too, it perform really well.
I think the mill decks can be strong for a period of time in standard. I don't know if the Max Elixer will balance that out. Without Mega turbo being played as much, because of giratini, the energy disruption is just devastating. Maybe, Kyogre will make a comeback.
From a commentary stand point, which I love to do, I'm hoping the deck doesn't get wildly popular. Like the old seismitoad decks, their not exciting to watch. But knowing my luck, I'm sure everybody is going to be playing them.
Congrats!
I think the mill decks can be strong for a period of time in standard. I don't know if the Max Elixer will balance that out. Without Mega turbo being played as much, because of giratini, the energy disruption is just devastating. Maybe, Kyogre will make a comeback.
From a commentary stand point, which I love to do, I'm hoping the deck doesn't get wildly popular. Like the old seismitoad decks, their not exciting to watch. But knowing my luck, I'm sure everybody is going to be playing them.
Congrats!
To all, the report is HERE:
SO! @Serperior I'll go into some of my choices:
Shauna Over Birch/ Syca: I've tested so much with various line ups and this one was the best. I don't play judge and birch because this deck doesn't work with 4 cards. If you are playing a Draw Supporter, it should be to get something. Sycamore discarded to much with painful hands afterwards. 5 cards usually suffices.
Trick shovel: This card is a needed 2-of but not needed as a 4- of. I'd rather have more disruption.
VS: 4-of simply to clunky and not useful. I think I took this out for a fourth Shauna?
Trainer's Mail: 4 simply wasn't needed either. Need to cut some things for other more important cards.
Thanks for all the support guys. I would love to answer more questions. I'm in constant need of more testing partners, so PM for testing as well
Round One: George L. With Turbo Tina
This was definitely a great matchup. I discarded double tina and hoopa turn 3, after he started lone shaymin. Basically, I just lysandre'd and giratina/ his second hoopa and won easily. Pretty straightforward.
1-0-0
Round 2: Calvin M. With Fighting/ Mane /Bats/ Smeargle
This is quite a popular deck in my area. It's really quite easy, and this game was too. He starts lone Lucario. I go second (which I always advise with this deck) and quickly discard his strong while getting 2 more Houndoom set up. I keep going, milling joyfully, until he has taken 1 Houndoom KO and 1 shaymin KO. With 7 cards left in his deck, I head ringer a shaymin and Team Aqua's secret base (TASB, arguably best card in the deck) and hope he doesn't hit one of his last 2 DCE for game (retreat/KO with lucario). I trick shovel, discard VS Seeker and Melting Horn. I discard the last 2 DCE off the top of the deck and he concedes.
2-0-0
No Show
3-0-0
Entei:
I start lone bunnelby and get donked. Yipee.
3-1
I'm up against Night March, which should be one of my best match-ups. It is, as he prizes 2 DCE and Concedes, as he wants to leave (he was 2-2, I was downpaired)
4-1, 2nd seed in Top 4
Top 4:
Same entei as earlier. Game one, he forgets I don't have TASB in play and forgets to retreat for 7-8 turns, allowing me to pick up the easy win as he milled himself.
Game 2: This game was really close. I got Houndoom Turn one with assault vests. He immediatly gets turn 2 Entei with Double Muscle and no DCE, taking the KO. I turn around, lysandre shaymin, and literally melting horn for the entire game. It was close because he almost attached 2 energy but I got quatruple heads.
Finals: (Vs. Seis/ Mane/ Bats)
Game One: I'm not sure how I won this series. Game one was literally 12 turns of draw pass before I hit Head ringer and energy to mill his active seismetoad out.
Game 2: He Batted me for shaymin ko and Houndoom KO with Toad. However, I used my 4 grunts and didn't let him power up. I missed an energy for a bunch of turns before finally hitting one and melting for for a turn before he conceded. His Manetrics were his last 2 prizes attachFull9483
There you go, Friends attachFull9484 enjoy
This was definitely a great matchup. I discarded double tina and hoopa turn 3, after he started lone shaymin. Basically, I just lysandre'd and giratina/ his second hoopa and won easily. Pretty straightforward.
1-0-0
Round 2: Calvin M. With Fighting/ Mane /Bats/ Smeargle
This is quite a popular deck in my area. It's really quite easy, and this game was too. He starts lone Lucario. I go second (which I always advise with this deck) and quickly discard his strong while getting 2 more Houndoom set up. I keep going, milling joyfully, until he has taken 1 Houndoom KO and 1 shaymin KO. With 7 cards left in his deck, I head ringer a shaymin and Team Aqua's secret base (TASB, arguably best card in the deck) and hope he doesn't hit one of his last 2 DCE for game (retreat/KO with lucario). I trick shovel, discard VS Seeker and Melting Horn. I discard the last 2 DCE off the top of the deck and he concedes.
2-0-0
No Show
3-0-0
Entei:
I start lone bunnelby and get donked. Yipee.
3-1
I'm up against Night March, which should be one of my best match-ups. It is, as he prizes 2 DCE and Concedes, as he wants to leave (he was 2-2, I was downpaired)
4-1, 2nd seed in Top 4
Top 4:
Same entei as earlier. Game one, he forgets I don't have TASB in play and forgets to retreat for 7-8 turns, allowing me to pick up the easy win as he milled himself.
Game 2: This game was really close. I got Houndoom Turn one with assault vests. He immediatly gets turn 2 Entei with Double Muscle and no DCE, taking the KO. I turn around, lysandre shaymin, and literally melting horn for the entire game. It was close because he almost attached 2 energy but I got quatruple heads.
Finals: (Vs. Seis/ Mane/ Bats)
Game One: I'm not sure how I won this series. Game one was literally 12 turns of draw pass before I hit Head ringer and energy to mill his active seismetoad out.
Game 2: He Batted me for shaymin ko and Houndoom KO with Toad. However, I used my 4 grunts and didn't let him power up. I missed an energy for a bunch of turns before finally hitting one and melting for for a turn before he conceded. His Manetrics were his last 2 prizes attachFull9483
There you go, Friends attachFull9484 enjoy
SO! @Serperior I'll go into some of my choices:
Shauna Over Birch/ Syca: I've tested so much with various line ups and this one was the best. I don't play judge and birch because this deck doesn't work with 4 cards. If you are playing a Draw Supporter, it should be to get something. Sycamore discarded to much with painful hands afterwards. 5 cards usually suffices.
Trick shovel: This card is a needed 2-of but not needed as a 4- of. I'd rather have more disruption.
VS: 4-of simply to clunky and not useful. I think I took this out for a fourth Shauna?
Trainer's Mail: 4 simply wasn't needed either. Need to cut some things for other more important cards.
Thanks for all the support guys. I would love to answer more questions. I'm in constant need of more testing partners, so PM for testing as well
Attachments
I`m playing with this build:
Pokemon:
4x Houndoom EX
3x M Houndoom EX
3x Zubat
3x Golbat
2x Crobat
2x Shaymin EX
Itens:
4x Acro Bike
4x Ultra Ball
4x Vs Seeker
3x Houndoom Spirit Link
3x Trainer`s Mail
2x Super Scoop Up
1x Mega Turbo
1x Professor`s Letter
Supporter:
2x Sycamore
2x Professor Birch Observation
2x Giovanni`s Scheme
1x Blacksmith
1x Skyla
1x AZ
1x Lysander
Stadium:
2x Scorched Earth
Energy:
2x Burning Energy
7x Fire Energy
Pokemon:
4x Houndoom EX
3x M Houndoom EX
3x Zubat
3x Golbat
2x Crobat
2x Shaymin EX
Itens:
4x Acro Bike
4x Ultra Ball
4x Vs Seeker
3x Houndoom Spirit Link
3x Trainer`s Mail
2x Super Scoop Up
1x Mega Turbo
1x Professor`s Letter
Supporter:
2x Sycamore
2x Professor Birch Observation
2x Giovanni`s Scheme
1x Blacksmith
1x Skyla
1x AZ
1x Lysander
Stadium:
2x Scorched Earth
Energy:
2x Burning Energy
7x Fire Energy
I've played the blastoise deck against it. If blastoise gets out turn one, which it has pretty good odds, it presents real challenges to the deck. It cannot mill fast enough, and crushing hammers and team flare grunts are not enough to hold it back as the Houdoom preys on energy efficient decks and Blastoise is not an energy efficient deck.
In standard, the vespiquen Vileplume deck can also give the Houndoom mill deck problems. Without it being able to get to the hammers, and the constant red card and judge, the deck becomes a big challenge fast.
@TuxedoBlack and @poke4trade
Well, @poke4trade is basically correct, but it's very changeable, if you tool your deck correctly, and make correct plays. Red card is quite strong, so is N. Tool scrapper is a 2-of. Here's how you play it:
Other tips:
Save crushing hammers.
Save flare grunts.
Save VS/ Lysandres.
Weakness policy is not helpful. Hard Charm/ SSu are your best bet to avoid KOs.
PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU WANT TO TEST, I DESPERATELY NEED PARTNERS.
Well, @poke4trade is basically correct, but it's very changeable, if you tool your deck correctly, and make correct plays. Red card is quite strong, so is N. Tool scrapper is a 2-of. Here's how you play it:
- Attempt to go first and play random receiver/ trainers' mail for ghetsis/ hex turn one.
- Lysandre Blastoise.
- If you play garbo, get it out t2.
- Mill.
Other tips:
Save crushing hammers.
Save flare grunts.
Save VS/ Lysandres.
Weakness policy is not helpful. Hard Charm/ SSu are your best bet to avoid KOs.
PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU WANT TO TEST, I DESPERATELY NEED PARTNERS.
Inclusion of Red Card and Delinquent also can make this deck more formidable?
what are you willing to sacrifice to add those cards? If you're making this deck to mill, then there's lots of changes to make. If the deck is to damage, then do damage and dont worry about milling. I feel too many decks try multiple combos rather than sticking to one main one. It's nice to have other options, but the game play and what your opponent is doing will determine which route to go.
I personally have a Poke pal who plays the mill version of the Houndoom deck and his deck is designed only for that purpose. So, he has little/no flexibility to actually take prizes. Similar, singular-purpose decks have been and are quite successful.
The new Delinquent Supporter is viewed as a solid addition to his deck and he'll incorporate it I'm sure. Not quite sure what will be replaced; but I suspect there are a few options.