Discussion The Blazing Hellhound - (M) Houndoom EX Discussion

@Asmer Yes, that is a good route too. However, I'm trading disruption for speed. Energy disruption only works if energy is on the board. Because M houndoom is a two energy charge you technically don't need put any energy on the board until the attack. Where you blacksmith the energy onto the M Houndoom or Enetie. Also, in most decks they run a 4/2/2 line of disruption so they are quite a few variables involved in hitting them.

So for Garitni/toad decks, you never really put down energy until u can charge an attack. This forces the player to hold the disruption cards or sycamore/birch for something else which puts their strategy at risk because they start discarding a part of their strategy or shuffling them back into the deck.

On a personal note, I believe this why the Sceptile decks saw good results at the British regional. With more quick charging cards like Manetric, Yvletal, Houndooms, Sceptiles, and Lacarios the disruption decks start to become a bit more of a challenge to play in standard because they are slow. Last season, when Seimitoad was about it was a bit different because the deck had the opponent item locked, poisoned, and or asleep. And the pokemon, quite often in my case, was a dreaded three charger. This year however, speed decks, running training mails and quick charge cards that are always playable on every turn counter that strategy a bit in standard. But it is not to say one approach is better then the other, their both good approaches but different.

The reason why robo sub is for two fold. One, it's not a prize card take. Two it is a great card to use when the opponent plays the escape rope. The deck allows you to throw up an active robo sub and now forces the opponent to play the lysander for a hit. If they can't lysander, because they already birched/Sycamored or just don't have it, it means the deck can get the first good lick in on the card next round because you can discard the robo sub for the attacking pokemon.

The difference is that robo sub, if managed, can always be a playable card in your hand that you have control of.

Where energy disruption decks is opponent depended. It depends on how your opponent plays his/her deck if it will work.
 
Your reasoning is intriguing and I really do like the idea of Robo Substitute in that regard. I suppose in a deck like this, you can afford to play a few extra tools to counteract more common strategies.
 
Well, for my Houndoom variant, I was thinking of maybe using the Phantom Forces Pyroar to drag in possibly Shaymins or anything else with low HP to KO it and use Grand Flame to recycle the energy to continuously use it's ability. Anyone see this as somewhat viable in the format?
 
Your reasoning is intriguing and I really do like the idea of Robo Substitute in that regard. I suppose in a deck like this, you can afford to play a few extra tools to counteract more common strategies.

I played two games. First game I received robo sub, Hoopa, and Enetie. I had first turn.
I played Enetie switched into robo sub and than hoopa for Houndoom EX, Shaymin and Mega Houndoom. I Played Houdoom EX, Muscled band, and a basic fire energy and passed the turned. My opponent didn't get much after his birch, so his Manetric was alone with a single energy drop and 20 was on my robo sub and 20 on houndoom. No basics were on his bench. Next round I dropped an energy and went Mega. My opponent paused, I think he was considering to lysander or draw more cards, but even if he lysandered he wouldn't be able to KO the houndoom. He opted for more cards for early game because he needed to setup. He received a bat. Next turn I knocked his Manetric out which left him one bat to battle and he conceded. I don't think he drew well, but again the quickness of the card does not really allow the opponent to get back into the game. I felt bad for his unlucky draw.

Next match went the same way, save for the opponent allowed a slow setup because he was Kyruem/Regice. I evolved M houndoom twice. The only difference in this game is that I had to escape rope for a regice, put up a robo sub and then discard it for the switch back into M Houndoom. I used Mega Houndoom to knock out regice and used my second Mega houndoom to knock out the Kyruem. The opponent only played two pokemon Regice/Kyruem.

I don't believe it is a serious competitive deck, but I do believe there is some silver lining between quick attacking pokemon and robo sub. I think spirit link, though is extremely useful card, can be gotten around as long as the Mega's charge is really low, or your just playing M Groudon.
 
2015-11-26:
Did some play-testing yesterday with my version of a Houndoom deck and wish to share that you may need to consider running at least copies of AZ in order to save your active Houndoom when your opponent has already and can hit for 100+ damage or 2HKO your 'Doom. Otherwise, still good results.

2015-11-28:

Today, I judged a local League Challenge; and between rounds, I chatted with a player who claims Houndoom is the "BDIF" in his opinion... Interesting.

Lastly, this particular thread now has more than 2,000 views which is SIGNIFICANTLY more than any other on the 1st page of this Forum... Again, interesting.
 
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Glad to hear the results are still going strong. I wish I could test it as well. Unfortunately... waiting til next week to do anything financially. QQ
Still, any new results are helpful. Hopefully I'll be able to join in as well soon enough.
 
Glad to hear the results are still going strong. I wish I could test it as well. Unfortunately... waiting til next week to do anything financially. QQ
Still, any new results are helpful. Hopefully I'll be able to join in as well soon enough.
Why wait?? You can now play-test decks with BT set cards online (at tcgone.net for free) or just proxy the the cards you need. :)
 
True, true. I actually may proxy the cards now. I made the mistakes of reading another thread and one of my friends is still a non-believer. Tisk tisk. >.>
Lend me a skeleton, please. Going to do a lot of tinkering with it tonight.
 
I'll join this boat too! :D

I'll be testing different M Houndoom variants and bring back the results ^.^
 
I don't know why but I too really want a Houndoom deck to work and been working on multiple for a few days.
Tried Milldooms but not that big results, just about 50% winratio no matter tweaks. And being honest here, most wins were from people that just tried and put energy on their front pokemon, leaving me free to use Team Flare Grunt every time I wanted.
A M-Houndoom deck seems always to be missing something to really shine on the variants I try, most decks I face got Hammers and other energy discards, taking away my Burn energy and leaves me with a too slow buildup after each attack and I can't help feeling a Typhlosion deck just outshines M-Houndoom as a fast and high damage fire deck.
 
I'm not going to give my list here, but I will say that building Mega Houndoom for speed is really the best way to play the deck. The object of the deck is to overwhelm your opponent with sheer power from the start. With the correct list you should be able to go through at least 20 cards on first turn most of the time. I'm at about 85% on going through that number of cards. If you actually want to see the list I play, you need to be a subscriber to the article program.
 
You need that new fire special energy. If your attack discards energy they go right back. This with bunnelby discarding the world would be hard. My thoughts were to add in sparkling robe and maybe a poisoning ability pokemon. That will get your OHKO on most ex in the game.
The list you replied to uses no attacks that discard energy and in general isn't even meant to attack for prizes. The only OHKO that Houndoom variant is going to get is against Vespaquen or Night March.
 
The list you replied to uses no attacks that discard energy and in general isn't even meant to attack for prizes. The only OHKO that Houndoom variant is going to get is against Vespaquen or Night March.

This exactly. You only play the Special Energy in the Mega Variant for very, very obvious reasons. :p

Also, I am very disappointed at the continuous stream of naysayers I view for both threads. People seem to fail to realize that Mill is not a herpaderp deck that you can simply win with, especially when it comes to Houndoom EX. Much like Bunnelby, he is a Versatile card, either Milling for the turn or setting up other Houndoom EX / Bunnelby / Whatever Else you are playing. I personally feel most of the naysayers are not taking this in to consideration and simply trying to play a Tanky Hot Dog Mill deck. This mentality will not grant you wins nor is the proper mentality to take with this deck.

I see less naysayers with the Mega version of the deck, simply because it is much easier to understand, let alone play, a deck based around Knocking Out Pokemon. This is good because in all honesty, I was expecting much more "ERMAHGERD M Houndoom EX is so weak lol0lz!!11!1!!" than I am seeing overall. :p

Either way, small rant over. Continue to work hard, my peers!
 
This exactly. You only play the Special Energy in the Mega Variant for very, very obvious reasons. :p

Also, I am very disappointed at the continuous stream of naysayers I view for both threads. People seem to fail to realize that Mill is not a herpaderp deck that you can simply win with, especially when it comes to Houndoom EX. Much like Bunnelby, he is a Versatile card, either Milling for the turn or setting up other Houndoom EX / Bunnelby / Whatever Else you are playing. I personally feel most of the naysayers are not taking this in to consideration and simply trying to play a Tanky Hot Dog Mill deck. This mentality will not grant you wins nor is the proper mentality to take with this deck.

I see less naysayers with the Mega version of the deck, simply because it is much easier to understand, let alone play, a deck based around Knocking Out Pokemon. This is good because in all honesty, I was expecting much more "ERMAHGERD M Houndoom EX is so weak lol0lz!!11!1!!" than I am seeing overall. :p

Either way, small rant over. Continue to work hard, my peers!
As someone who's played a couple Bunnelby variants, I wholeheartedly agree. Mill decks are HARD, but very rewarding when you play your cards right. I've used it with Ninjask (RoS) that discards the opponent's top card while active with its ability, and I'ved used a straight Bunnelby-Robo Sub deck, but neither would have had any success without hard hitting disruption. Silent Lab was crucial to crippling ability acceleration, and forced players to use trainers to dig into their deck for counter stadiums. While Scorched Earth sounds promising for the Houndoom-Bunnelby, I feel like Silent Lab with a Parallel City tech would be the best play. Anything you can do with the deck should be centered on forcing your opponent deeper into their deck than they want to go so that your opponent runs their own deck down faster than you ever could.

I'm working on a Celebi promo deck now that uses a bit of the same idea, but that is actually meant to get KO's instead of mill, despite how slow the KO's will go with it. However, even the first game I played with that deck was almost won on a mill. Don't let anyone talk you out of 4 Team Flare Grunts. If anything, the unexpected factor of it alone can net you games.
 
What I've experienced with Houndoom/Mega Houndoom is that I ran it with a very good speed.

Due to things like blacksmith, Scorched earth's and Fiery torches.

Using skyla as a card search it gave me a certain speed.

Siding it with Pyroar (Flashfire) as a 2-2 and using Brigette.

You can actually take control of the field in your favor.

the deck has its ups and downs but if you play your cards right.
You can actually overcome many obstacles .
 
On my original list if you use 2 regular Entie from Ancient Orgins it gives you a really good Night March matchup. I also have added in one pyroar from FF and have seen really good results with it.

The deck really can't be played the same way the every time. The deck sort of needs to adjust based on the style of the opponents play. If the opponent is playing a setup deck then robo sub Mega works well. If the opponent is playing a speed like night march then forgoing the mega setup is the right approach because you need short efficient attackers. The regular enetie does 20+bench+Muscleband knocks out a pukaboo and a Vespqueen. The prize card exchange starts working in your favor and adding in a pyroar from FF holds the pumkaboo and joltek from attacking.

Still working on a favorable outcome with Regice/Manetric, tough matchup. But with Pryoar controlling the board the deck can shift things in your favor. Unfortunately, the opponent doesn't need to lay down a bench, so your better off to Mega and use the AT Enetie. Like always, it comes down to how well the opponent draws.
 
I actually had an idea yesterday that I forgot to mention and I'm honestly surprised no one has said this yet...
But... why not Houndoom EX // Lugia or Yveltal EX? Granted, you can also play M Houndoom EX with it and Houndoom does allow you to accelerate Lugia/Yveltal while maintaining a Pokemon that can instantly answer Vespiquen (via Blacksmith). I think it's worth a test at the very least.
 
I actually had an idea yesterday that I forgot to mention and I'm honestly surprised no one has said this yet...
But... why not Houndoom EX // Lugia or Yveltal EX? Granted, you can also play M Houndoom EX with it and Houndoom does allow you to accelerate Lugia/Yveltal while maintaining a Pokemon that can instantly answer Vespiquen (via Blacksmith). I think it's worth a test at the very least.

I'll have to try it. It sounds like a Vir/Gen concept.
 
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