'Blue Impact' / 'Red Flash' Japan's XY8 Sets, Next Set Block Titled 'XY: BREAK!'

Footprints of the Herd is actually a pretty cool attack. It won't deal massive damage, but it's still nice to see a unique attack like that.

Assuming Mamoswine has a retreat cost of 3, this attack would max out at 140 damage.
 
I don't think it'll be more than a good secondary, non-EX attacker without Wattson's Bolt From The Blue.

And now that I've said that, that name is cool enough that I don't mind playing the same meta in a different color for a few more years.
 
Purrloin said:
Footprints of the Herd is actually a pretty cool attack. It won't deal massive damage, but it's still nice to see a unique attack like that.

Assuming Mamoswine has a retreat cost of 3, this attack would max out at 140 damage.
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In Expanded, Mamoswine from Plasma Storm has a retreat cost of 4. Also, all Mamoswine to date have a retreat cost of four,except for Stormfront Mamoswine, which had a retreat cost of 5 (which, by the way, was the most recent Fighting type Mamoswine). Just saying.
 
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Joseph Redd said:
In Expanded, Mamoswine from Plasma Storm has a retreat cost of 4. Also, all Mamoswine to date have a retreat cost of four,except for Stormfront Mamoswine, which had a retreat cost of 5 (which, by the way, was the most recent Fighting type Mamoswine). Just saying.
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If Mamoswine has 4, then it'll max at 170 (which is decent, as it can KO many EXs).

Problem is you have to get three Stage 2's and one Stage 1 out to do it. Not to mention three energy on Piloswine. That's why I said before it probably won't deal a ton of damage, at least not consistently. Setting it up to max will be a pain in the rear. Though granted, Fighting type has a lot of buffing cards that could reduce the number of Mamoswine you need.

...Also Shrine of Memories would bring the max to 190 with 4 Mamoswine at 4 retreat.

But still, difficulty aside, it's a cool attack and I'll likely try it out in casual play.
 
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Piloswine? Cool,especially to its attacks like footprints of the herd which it is a nice name. I'm so excited what will Mamoswine is...
Raikou? This Pokemon is a tank! If you attach more energy to it,Raikou is an "Invulnerable Armor" plus its nice attack.
 
Thank arceus it's ability doesn't scale by the amount of lightning energy on it, or else it would be broken, fast. On another note, all we need now is some form of Archie's but for lightning, and this is the new keldeo
 
I start investing in a M Ampharos deck for expanded on a whim, and then they go ahead and reveal a nifty Magnezone AND this Raikou just before my birthday? Heck yeah. I'm like, ecstatic that Amphy gets some good support in standard too!
 
Ms Hugo said:
Good stuff, now errata Rare Candy so we can keep up with Mega Ray...
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Yeah but then how will you keep up with the other cards that will break? :rolleyes:

I am noticing a trend: they keep making the game faster and it keeps becoming harder for them to control. The sad part is this isn't even the first time. I had hoped they had learned this lesson already. :(
 
Otaku said:
Yeah but then how will you keep up with the other cards that will break? :rolleyes:

I am noticing a trend: they keep making the game faster and it keeps becoming harder for them to control. The sad part is this isn't even the first time. I had hoped they had learned this lesson already. :(
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Rare Candy actually was not this slow until now. It actually was nerfed in its BW printing to prevent people from evolving quickly and making the game more luck based.

As for the broken Shiftry combo, the problem isn't the Stadium. It's the way is it worded. If it was errat'd or in the first place printed to say you could only evolve Grass Pokemon into other Grass, the whole NXD Shiftry combo wouldn't happen.

But going back to your fear that a T1 Rare Candy will break the game, I'm not so sure about. Firstly, while you can activate Giant Fan with Rare Candy, it's a finite resource and even with Dowsing Machine, you only going to get 5 chances to flip and many could be tails.

What about other Pokemon you say? Can't think of any. In fact, only benefits come like Delphox. And Vileplume is awesome right? You can't deny that you're going to go second in many games. a T1 Vileplume will make it difficult to use Rare Candy.
 
asdjklghty said:
Rare Candy actually was not this slow until now. It actually was nerfed in its BW printing to prevent people from evolving quickly and making the game more luck based.
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I wonder how I missed that all those years I was using Rare Candy to Evolve instantly. :rolleyes:

This time it wasn't even a long or confusing post, so I'm not sure where communications broke down. I don't mean to sound like an egomaniac, but while we've only interacted on this message board (possibly one other), most of the time I seem to be pointing out to you: I was there! :D I began playing this game back in 1999. You're going to find a few times where I was absent due to the demands of life, but even then I've gone back to learn what I missed. Finer details may be lacking (I don't have an eidetic memory) but this was a pretty major bit of the game's history and... my initial post referenced it.

Otaku said:
The sad part is this isn't even the first time.
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I didn't go into specifics because this is not the only time, the other most famous being Broken Time-Space.

asdjklghty said:
As for the broken Shiftry combo, the problem isn't the Stadium. It's the way is it worded. If it was errat'd or in the first place printed to say you could only evolve Grass Pokemon into other Grass, the whole NXD Shiftry combo wouldn't happen.
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The entire point of the Stadium is to accelerate Evolution. This kind of problem happens when what? When we have non-specific Evolution acceleration. Elsewhere (so no, I don't expect you to have read it XD) I pointed out that if the-powers-that-be wanted to be minimalists, I proposed that same erratum as a fix. The thing is, that stops just this one specific abuse. The Shiftry (NEX) combo was just the most egregious example; even restricting it to a single type, when you have such widespread Evolution acceleration, bad things happen.

The "best" case scenario is that the-powers-that-be remember to preemptively "nerf" all the Evolutions that could potentially cash in on this so that in the end they are no better than they would have been had they been designed for a format without Forest of Giant Plants (that is, had they not been preemptively toned down so that Forest of Giant Plants wouldn't "break" them). However people will feel like the cards are "more powerful" because they are faster. We aren't encountering the "best case". We aren't at the "worst case", but it isn't good. We should be freaking out because we've got not only another T1 Item lock combo, but one that works from the Bench. I don't know if we just haven't found the correct dance partner or if things are so out of whack that something that should be causing problems isn't.

I realize that last bit can be mistaken for a good thing, but think of it like when you look down, see a massive wound on your leg, but it doesn't hurt... and you later find out it started out as a smaller injury but because you didn't feel any pain you made it worse.
 
Otaku said:
I wonder how I missed that all those years I was using Rare Candy to Evolve instantly. :rolleyes:
The entire point of the Stadium is to accelerate Evolution. This kind of problem happens when what? When we have non-specific Evolution acceleration. Elsewhere (so no, I don't expect you to have read it XD) I pointed out that if the-powers-that-be wanted to be minimalists, I proposed that same erratum as a fix. The thing is, that stops just this one specific abuse. The Shiftry (NEX) combo was just the most egregious example; even restricting it to a single type, when you have such widespread Evolution acceleration, bad things happen.

The "best" case scenario is that the-powers-that-be remember to preemptively "nerf" all the Evolutions that could potentially cash in on this so that in the end they are no better than they would have been had they been designed for a format without Forest of Giant Plants (that is, had they not been preemptively toned down so that Forest of Giant Plants wouldn't "break" them). However people will feel like the cards are "more powerful" because they are faster. We aren't encountering the "best case". We aren't at the "worst case", but it isn't good. We should be freaking out because we've got not only another T1 Item lock combo, but one that works from the Bench. I don't know if we just haven't found the correct dance partner or if things are so out of whack that something that should be causing problems isn't.

I realize that last bit can be mistaken for a good thing, but think of it like when you look down, see a massive wound on your leg, but it doesn't hurt... and you later find out it started out as a smaller injury but because you didn't feel any pain you made it worse.
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I agree with the last bit about the leg but you're still not telling me your personal experience with a T1 Rare Candy. Was the game broken then?


Did you have a good chance playing against VileGar (which had the original Broken Stadium as well as Rare Candy that worked T1). Apparently Rare Candy was included in typical builds of that deck.

The point is, you can list your history with the game, the Shiftry problem but at the end of the day, this is a TCG. What was your experience with things closest to what we have now? What can you speculate that will be broken? Is there merit to worrying about things like how broken Stage 2s will be if Rare Candy had its errat taken off?
 
asdjklghty said:
I agree with the last bit about the leg but you're still not telling me your personal experience with a T1 Rare Candy. Was the game broken then?
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Yes. It wasn't just the T1 thing either and for better or worse, it wasn't just Rare Candy. The short version is that
  • Evolution is an iconic and integral part of the Pokémon TCG
  • Properly balancing cards requires taking into account how quickly they enter play
  • Stage 1 cards are supposed to also matter
It is quite difficult designing cards where something like Rare Candy doesn't translate to "Pretend the Stage 2 forms are Stage 1 cards. Forget the Stage 1 Pokémon in these lines exist. Also, we can't do anything for these cards that is balanced against them taking three total turns to hit the field and not less, because we just made "less" not only an option but probably the preferred method of play."

If you want a specific instance that I think rose to the level of "abuse" I'll give you two:
  • Pidgeot (FireRed/LeafGreen) being a card you either ran, ran a counter+alternate option to or ran alongside its own counter doesn't work as well when you can't drop a Pidgey and instantly turn it into a Pidgeot to use its Poké-Power.
  • Basic + Rare Candy + Stage 2 + Scramble Energy (sometimes with the addition of Rocket's Admin): work hard to pull ahead only for a near universal combo (often helped out by Pidgeot) so that your reward for expending resources to take a hardfought KO was... your opponent instantly having a Stage 1 or Stage 2 attacker that has three "rainbow" Energy attached. Even skipping Scramble Energy, it still was irksome knowing no matter how hard you fought to take something out, bam it could be back.
I also nearly wrote an article explaining why I think the game ought to operate a certain way, but I'm so out of time. Maybe later.
 
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