Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage

[HA559]

@Celever
You cannot say it as simple as that. Unless you know of someone who has been raised by gay parents explain their upbringing and weather it effected their life having gay parents. If you have or if anyone else has not got a negative effect, then even I will come to agree with you.

@crystal_pidgeot
You are right about children not having a choice it is made for them. No matter which you look at it two dads or two mums is not the same as a mum and dad. This is the defining factor for which I come to disagree with you. I accept there are gay people and even gay parents adopting, but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it (gay parenting).

Assumptions are made like their are no good straight couple around looking to adopt a child. I don't know why this is here. If thats the case then someone willing to care for a child is better than noone caring for a child, this is where I will agree with you on this topic.

There are another number of things that are done in the name of human progress that are bad as well like removing diseases before a baby is born altering DNA all while also deciding the sex of the baby, colour of their eyes etc. This is human progress?

@Equinox
Sorry for the loss. Your dad has got good mental strength that is why he was able to raise you by himself. I'm not saying gay couple can't raise a child, they can. I'm saying why they shouldn't be top priority.

@Arugula Salad
I was going to write that but then deleted it. This is different. Gay couple go into a relationship knowing they can't have children, no one denied them any parenting, being gay it automatically means you are denied yourself having children. Straight couple can still go in to a relationship knowing their is a chance of having children. I don't have to lump them together you may have to.

 

[HA559]

Okay, you're going to have to enable me for a second but why do you believe gay marriage is wrong?

Is talking about me, trying to think what I'm thinking.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

@Celever

You are right about children not having a choice it is made for them. No matter which you look at it two dads or two mums is not the same as a mum and dad. This is the defining factor for which I come to disagree with you. I accept there are gay people and even gay parents adopting, but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it (gay parenting).

Assumptions are made like their are no good straight couple around looking to adopt a child. I don't know why this is here. If thats the case then someone willing to care for a child is better than noone caring for a child, this is where I will agree with you on this topic.

There are another number of things that are done in the name of human progress that are bad as well like removing diseases before a baby is born altering DNA all while also deciding the sex of the baby, colour of their eyes etc. This is human progress?

Yes it is. It is human progress. Undesirable genes are a thing and if they can be avoided, then even better. Every aspect of our lives come from making the best possible choice at the time. Why is removing diseases from a baby before its born a bad thing? Would you want to be born with sicknesses or deformities? I would not want to live my life with no eyes, missing limbs or other things. I would want something to be done since we have the means to do something. This is a good thing since you can make a baby that would be born mentally person smart and give them a better life.

As for your first point, what is being denied to the child who has 2 moms or 2 dads? What about single parents raising children? Unless the child is living a sheltered life (hetero or homo), then there should be concern for the child's development. Kids go to school and make role models all their lives they can look up to and if the child has a more or less normal upbringing, then whats the problem? There has been study and research that shows homo or hetero families show no real differences.

http://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html
http://www.galperlaw.com/gay-law-report/gay-adoption-statistics/

 

[Arugula Salad]

Okay, you're going to have to enable me for a second but why do you believe gay marriage is wrong?

Good question. I am a Christian and I cannot deny what the Bible teaches. This is gonna sound harsh, (actually, now that I think of it, it IS harsh) but God clearly states that homosexuality is a sin and of course I believe sin is wrong. I see it as sin because it is an aberration of marriage, one of the holiest things that God has decreed. (Genesis 2:24) This does not mean I do not sin and am in a place to condemn others, and it does not mean that homosexuality is different than any other sin in God's eyes. However, it is one of the only sins being advocated for and vindicated by the government. Well, you asked for it. There it is. However, a better place for this particular conversation might be PMs. If you want to talk more, I suggest we do it there.

Is talking about me, trying to think what I'm thinking.

Actually, I was talking about myself. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Equinox]

@HA559 "Gay people should not be allowed to adopt. Simplybecause if being gay is natural,then it's also natural for gay people to not have children." Is the exact quote I was looking at. If a widower who has "strong mental health" can take care of a child, than certainly two people of the same sex of normal mental health can do it too. (I'm not trying to call your beliefs out, this just seems illogical to me)

Also, while I find the bible as a great book of learning, I do not think you should strictly follow it, I mean it tries to justify slavery, and I'm willing to bet everyone here is against that. (I'm not trying to come off antireligious either, sorry! It's just I find human rights more important and touchy than religious rights) The bible also says not to wear jewelry, and look what happens when someone gets married, and where they usually get married in...am I being clear or am I coming off as offensive? I think religion is nice, but I don't think it should have authority.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Good question. I am a Christian and I cannot deny what the Bible teaches. This is gonna sound harsh, (actually, now that I think of it, it IS harsh) but God clearly states that homosexuality is a sin and of course I believe sin is wrong. I see it as sin because it is an aberration of marriage, one of the holiest things that God has decreed. (Genesis 2:24) This does not mean I do not sin and am in a place to condemn others, and it does not mean that homosexuality is different than any other sin in God's eyes. However, it is one of the only sins being advocated for and vindicated by the government. Well, you asked for it. There it is. However, a better place for this particular conversation might be PMs. If you want to talk more, I suggest we do it there.

Wow, thank you for proving my point so fast. I truly thank you. Now, my next question, f you were not religious at all (be completely honest here) would you be opposed to it?

 

[Celever]

@Celever
You cannot say it as simple as that. Unless you know of someone who has been raised by gay parents explain their upbringing and weather it effected their life having gay parents. If you have or if anyone else has not got a negative effect, then even I will come to agree with you.

I know people who have been raised by a single parent their whole life. Still one sex, but only one of everything else too...

@Arugula Salad
I was going to write that but then deleted it. This is different. Gay couple go into a relationship knowing they can't have children, no one denied them any parenting, being gay it automatically means you are denied yourself having children. Straight couple can still go in to a relationship knowing their is a chance of having children. I don't have to lump them together you may have to.

Maybe, MAYBE your argument would hold some kind of weight (though minimal) if homosexuality was to be a choice, but homosexuality is not a choice and I have no idea how this lie started but it seems like half of America believes it. Are you saying that gays who want children should suppress all of their sexual urges for their whole life and marry someone of the opposite gender just so that they can have kids with someone they don't truly love? THAT, my friend, would be unnatural.

Good question. I am a Christian and I cannot deny what the Bible teaches. This is gonna sound harsh, (actually, now that I think of it, it IS harsh) but God clearly states that homosexuality is a sin and of course I believe sin is wrong. I see it as sin because it is an aberration of marriage, one of the holiest things that God has decreed. (Genesis 2:24) This does not mean I do not sin and am in a place to condemn others, and it does not mean that homosexuality is different than any other sin in God's eyes. However, it is one of the only sins being advocated for and vindicated by the government. Well, you asked for it. There it is. However, a better place for this particular conversation might be PMs. If you want to talk more, I suggest we do it there.

Just quick, do you do any of the things listed on these two sites?
http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Things_The_Bible_Bans,_But_You_Do_Anyway
http://list25.com/25-normal-things-the-bible-forbids-but-we-still-do/

If so, and I'm guessing you do, you cannot disagree with gay marriage because of what the Bible says when you go against what the Bible says on other matters. That is hypocritical.
Also, marriage isn't actually religious at its roots. Again, not sure where the idea that it is came from, but it's another widely spread lie.
Furthermore, you said that homosexuality is one of the only sins which the Government advocates for. The Bible actually has countless "sins" spread around throughout it. Generally the commandments are the only true sins, the others are sorta there just to prove an individual point. The Government advocates for everyone being able to divorce, and for all people to be allowed to attend church, whether they have testicles or otherwise. Are you against both of these too?

 

[Arugula Salad]

@Equinox No, you're not coming off as offensive. In fact, that's about the least offensive response to something like my post I've ever seen. Is there a way we can talk more privately? I'd love to follow up the discussion with you.

@crystal_pidgeot No, I wouldn't. Without a higher authority, I can't find myself with a standing point to oppose anything.

@Celever Big questions. I'd really like to talk, but I don't think a place like this would be the best. Is there a more private way of communication?

Also, I'm done for the night. Hope to talk more tomorrow!

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

[No, I wouldn't. Without a higher authority, I can't find myself with a standing point to oppose anything.

Thank you once again for proving my point. Now if the others here can admit what you have just said, we can have a more meaningful discussion about this subject. Thank you for being honest.

 

[Chaos Jackal]

I'd like to thank Celever and Equinox for proving my point. And I congratulate Arugula Salad on her honesty as well. I can't say I like what comes from that statement, but as I've said before there are people who think like that and it's their right to do so. I'll respect your wish to not furthermore talk about this in a public thread and not say anything else on that matter.

On the subject at hand, since I had as well expressed concern about the children of homosexuals a few pages before, I'll have to say I still hold on these concerns. Good points in favor of it have been raised, but some things just don't change overnight. However, following the decision to legalize the marriage between homosexuals, it's the time for older things to come to pass.

Do I believe that the children of homosexuals will be subject to being bullied about their family? Yes, I do. Children might be harsh, and they might find pretty much any reason to bully the others. But this doesn't change the fact that having a homosexual couple as parents will probably be a reason for bullying.

Do I then believe that homosexuals shouldn't have the right to adopt children? No, I don't. It's sad that some of these children, especially for the first years after legalization of homosexual marriage, will be subject to taunts and libels because of their parents, but no great change ever happens immediately. We can only hope that some day people will not look down on these children, but find their parents just as typical as any other. And the only way to do so is to have people get used to the idea.

 

[Equinox]

There was a time, and in certain parts still are, when interracial dating was/is looked down upon, this is slowly fading away. With time and education, we can end intolerance. I would like to end my post with a highly relevant and powerful quote from one of Pokémon's most well known villains;

"We do have a lot in common.
The same air, the same Earth, the same sky.
Maybe if we started looking at
what's the same instead of
always looking at what's different,

...well, who knows?"

 

[CuriousCleffa]

I followed this thread But I didn't have to say anything until children were bought up.

Gay people should not be allowed to adopt. Simply because if being gay is natural, then it's also natural for gay people to not have children.

When a couple have a child/children, and then one (or both) of the parents finds out that they are gay or comes out as gay then the parents separate on good or bad terms regardless, that too is a different issue altogether, since you already had a biological child.

Woah, woah, woah. What makes you think that LGBT couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt? Just because they can't have kids on their own?
I don't understand this.
My girlfriend and I are both excited to have children in our future. Being a mother/father can be a natural feeling as well (motherly instinct and such), so they should be able to have children, anyone should be able to adopt a child as long as they can provide a loving home and a better future for the child.

 

[Celever]

I'd like to thank Celever and Equinox for proving my point. And I congratulate Arugula Salad on her honesty as well. I can't say I like what comes from that statement, but as I've said before there are people who think like that and it's their right to do so. I'll respect your wish to not furthermore talk about this in a public thread and not say anything else on that matter.

On the subject at hand, since I had as well expressed concern about the children of homosexuals a few pages before, I'll have to say I still hold on these concerns. Good points in favor of it have been raised, but some things just don't change overnight. However, following the decision to legalize the marriage between homosexuals, it's the time for older things to come to pass.

Do I believe that the children of homosexuals will be subject to being bullied about their family? Yes, I do. Children might be harsh, and they might find pretty much any reason to bully the others. But this doesn't change the fact that having a homosexual couple as parents will probably be a reason for bullying.

Do I then believe that homosexuals shouldn't have the right to adopt children? No, I don't. It's sad that some of these children, especially for the first years after legalization of homosexual marriage, will be subject to taunts and libels because of their parents, but no great change ever happens immediately. We can only hope that some day people will not look down on these children, but find their parents just as typical as any other. And the only way to do so is to have people get used to the idea.

Again, I just can't really agree with this point. I was bullied badly through school for a myriad of reasons I had no control over. Every day I came in I just had another reason thrown at me. I got really depressed and I got morbidly obese due to comfort eating and so I was bullied about that. Having homosexual parents is a reason why someone might be bullied, but there are so many others it really just depends on what and who the bullies choose to attack.

There was a time, and in certain parts still are, when interracial dating was/is looked down upon, this is slowly fading away. With time and education, we can end intolerance. I would like to end my post with a highly relevant and powerful quote from one of Pokémon's most well known villains;

"We do have a lot in common.
The same air, the same Earth, the same sky.
Maybe if we started looking at
what's the same instead of
always looking at what's different,

...well, who knows?"

Whose quote is that? I really like it.

 

[CuriousCleffa]

Again, I just can't really agree with this point. I was bullied badly through school for a myriad of reasons I had no control over. Every day I came in I just had another reason thrown at me. I got really depressed and I got morbidly obese due to comfort eating and so I was bullied about that. Having homosexual parents is a reason why someone might be bullied, but there are so many others it really just depends on what and who the bullies choose to attack.


Whose quote is that? I really like it.

I believe it's from Meowth. From what I remember.

 

[Shining Raikou]

If anyone is still having a religious objection to (gay) marriage, I would like to share with you this letter I read today. Personally, I do not mind you having your beliefs, but please do not act as if you are a more perfect person or worth more in the eyes of god. Do not hate because of your beliefs. Adopt a position of tolerance if you cannot look past the "sin".

https://kaitlinebeling.wordpress.co...ica-im-sorry-an-open-letter-from-a-christian/

 

[Equinox]

Again, I just can't really agree with this point. I was bullied badly through school for a myriad of reasons I had no control over. Every day I came in I just had anothe

Whose quote is that? I really like it.

I believe it's from Meowth. From what I remember.

The most ironic thing I find is the quote not only comes from a "Kid's show" but it is a view expressed from one of the bad guys, the villains, the people you aren't supposed to like

 

[thegrovylekid]

Perhaps...

We should look to what brought us here? From experience, most Poké-People don't care if you are gay, or what you look like, or anything. We all play Pokémon, anyone can like it, you can't discriminate in Pokémon because when you battle them, something new is born. It doesn't matter if you're gay, or have autism, or anything of the like. When you battle, you can truly see that you aren't that different from eachother. You both know and love the game, you both want to have that connection to the Pokémon world. That in itself is a beautiful thing.

 

[Chaos Jackal]

@Celever Bullies will find reasons to bully you, yes. And one of them will most probably be the gender of your parents. It won't be the only one, of course, but that doesn't make it any less of a reason. Just because something isn't unique doesn't mean it's not applicable. You got bullied for being morbidly obese. What if you were morbidly obese, had come out as gay, AND your parents where of the same gender?
It is a reason to be bullied for; that's all I said. It's not the only reason, nor is it reason enough to prevent homosexuals from adopting.

 

[TheStrictNein]

@Celever Bullies will find reasons to bully you, yes. And one of them will most probably be the gender of your parents. It won't be the only one, of course, but that doesn't make it any less of a reason. Just because something isn't unique doesn't mean it's not applicable. You got bullied for being morbidly obese. What if you were morbidly obese, had come out as gay, AND your parents where of the same gender?
It is a reason to be bullied for; that's all I said. It's not the only reason, nor is it reason enough to prevent homosexuals from adopting.

Exactly. I could have ugly parents and be bullied for that. Poor parents, atheist parents, nudist parents, smart parents, dumb parents, single parent, divorced parent.

Why is gay parent any worse. Children will find ways to bully people. Stopping the happiness of millions of people just for that is wrong.

 

[Leo33wii]

What about people who are born that cannot have children. Infertility is a thing you know. They cannot have children naturally due to genetics. And they still adopt.

Also, it's has been shown by psychologist that the gender of the parents doesn't negatively influence the brain of a developing child. There are stages through growing up that are crucial to development. Babies need to have visual stimulation and communication stimulation. Children, like in 3rd world orphanages, had issues.
http://www.livescience.com/21778-early-neglect-alters-kids-brains.html
http://cola.unh.edu/sites/cola.unh.edu/files/student-journals/ShelbyChamberlin.pdf

Also, the bible speaks of homosexual LUST as a sin. It's what caused straight men, who were married to 500 wives, and had 300 concubines, who happened to LUST over their male slaves. This homosexual LUST is the sin. But then again, Jesus did come and say that the old testament laws aren't to be followed. He died on the cross for our sins and for those laws. You're disrespecting Jesus, how he was beaten by the Romans and crucified, by saying that "i'm ignoring all this because the old testament describes this hatred i have and i want to pervert the old testament with quotes used out of context."
The bible promotes love. To care for and love each other. The bible talks about homosexual lust through and through, how it's wrong. But no where does it describe homosexual love because it isn't needed. Love is love.